Paradigm Shaveware The Diamondback

Thank you for your input, Shane!

From an IG post by WCS responding to a question regarding the efficiency of the Diamondback, “thanks for the question. We reached out to Paradigm for this. “It’s similar to Ti 1 in efficiency, more user friendly. Am I allowed to say that it’s our best DE to date? Given the level of efficiency, it’s lretty darn easy and safe to shave with. The gap at .8 is pretty healthy.”

The Ti1 is a better than average razor.  It's nothing special, other than a low production total.  If the Diamondback is similar, but smoother, it will still be better than average.  It'll be a hard pass for me, no matter the price or material, as I don't believe it could replace anything I have and I'm not one that has to try every new razor on the market.  I would think for $240 though it would be polished.  My personal BS aside, it is nice to have it in the market.  I hope he sells every one he makes.  I don't know Andy as well as others, but my interactions with him were very good.

With that said, I'd argue that .8 is a "healthy" gap.  We all know that gap is only part of the equation but with the recent trend of big gaps, .80mm, to me is "meh"....unless, it has Blackbird exposure, which my guess is, it won't because it would no longer be smoother than a Ti1.  I also get that Andy probably wasn't directing his answer to guys like me.  He is aiming at those with much better technique, I'm certain.

Hard pass for me too, I’ve tried almost all the new modern, hard to get and expensive DE razors out there and Charcoal Goods is the one that works unbelievably well for me. I just can’t see another DE razors beating it for me, when you find that razor you lose the need to try everything else. The DE razor market also seems a bit crowded now. It’s a bit relieving not wanting to buy the newest DE razors anymore.

That said, I did just buy a Polished ATT SE1 to give the SE another go 

Those CG razors are very, very good. I love the L2 plate. The L3SB got a little harsh, for me, I still enjoyed it though. Like you, I owned an played with just about all of the hard to get, most expensive stuff. When you find those 2 or 3 razors that you lock into, the need to try everything diminishes, unless you just like knowing it all. And you can pay dearly for that knowledge as very few razors can be resold for full MSRP on a BST. It seems to me kinda silly to lose $20-$40 on 15-20 razors a year just for the sake of being in every new razor thread on every forum. That's why they make chocolate and vanilla tho.

I have no dog in this fight, but not a single person here, myself included, would be able to tell the difference between 303 and 316 if they weren’t told. Both are over-specced for the application and there is no reason for 316L unless you intend to do a lot of scuba-shaving. You’re being sold something because you’re told it’s “better” without considering whether it actually is for the job. This is a paper argument. In the hand you’d have absolutely no clue which is the “better” steel.

That being said, I’ve had to purchase a loose Handle for my Blackbird in the past because it slipped from my hands while cleaning it in the sink after shaving. The fall was approximately six inches to the bottom of my sink, but was enough to ding up my Handle. As I said, I know that this isn’t what the Handle was designed for, but I wonder if 316L or 17-4 would have come out unscathed after a similar accident? So for me personally, the steels hardness is something I would consider.

Here's a good link comparing the mechanical properties of 303 and 316L. They are incredibly similar. You don't choose 316L for any strength advantage because there really isn't one. You choose it for corrosion resistance. 316L would not have prevented damage.

I have no dog in this fight, but not a single person here, myself included, would be able to tell the difference between 303 and 316 if they weren’t told. Both are over-specced for the application and there is no reason for 316L unless you intend to do a lot of scuba-shaving. You’re being sold something because you’re told it’s “better” without considering whether it actually is for the job. This is a paper argument. In the hand you’d have absolutely no clue which is the “better” steel.

That being said, I’ve had to purchase a loose Handle for my Blackbird in the past because it slipped from my hands while cleaning it in the sink after shaving. The fall was approximately six inches to the bottom of my sink, but was enough to ding up my Handle. As I said, I know that this isn’t what the Handle was designed for, but I wonder if 316L or 17-4 would have come out unscathed after a similar accident? So for me personally, the steels hardness is something I would consider.

Here's a good link comparing the mechanical properties of 303 and 316L. They are incredibly similar. You don't choose 316L for any strength advantage because there really isn't one. You choose it for corrosion resistance. 316L would not have prevented damage.

Great information, Thank You Shane.

Great information, Thank You Shane.

You're welcome. I'm sorry to hear about your Blackbird handle.

Great information, Thank You Shane.

You're welcome. I'm sorry to hear about your Blackbird handle.

Haha, Thanks. That’s what happens when you have an ‘Operator Error’, certainly no fault of the Blackbirds. I am thankful that I had the option of purchasing a loose Handle though, I like keeping my gear looking tip top!

I have no dog in this fight, but not a single person here, myself included, would be able to tell the difference between 303 and 316 if they weren’t told. Both are over-specced for the application and there is no reason for 316L unless you intend to do a lot of scuba-shaving. You’re being sold something because you’re told it’s “better” without considering whether it actually is for the job. This is a paper argument. In the hand you’d have absolutely no clue which is the “better” steel.

Probably true. CG & Blackland use 303. Timeless uses 304. Wolfman uses 316L. Guess maybe it is perceived value for high-end luxury razor. They will all sell out I am sure. Paradigm makes very small runs, goes dark, and comes out with the next iteration a year later. Sounds more like a hobby...

I have no dog in this fight, but not a single person here, myself included, would be able to tell the difference between 303 and 316 if they weren’t told. Both are over-specced for the application and there is no reason for 316L unless you intend to do a lot of scuba-shaving. You’re being sold something because you’re told it’s “better” without considering whether it actually is for the job. This is a paper argument. In the hand you’d have absolutely no clue which is the “better” steel.

I noticed that there was Pils issue noted in one forum before, it was not made of 316L and got rusted. Might be different reasons, not sure. 
https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/pils-stainless-steel-razor-with-rust.164944/
 
Brands, whose razors are made of 316L, note that:
We need 316 SS to get sufficient corrosion resistance for the safety razors.
They might be corroded with time, due to tap water, humidity in bathroom, interaction with carbon blades and shaving soaps, etc.  

I honestly don't have any idea whether 303 SS will rust or not within 10 years, or no idea to we really need 316L for safety razors.
But as much as I know, corrosion will not initiate instantly, it requires time. It is hard to know now.
Since, many CNC razors were manufactured less than 5 years ago.  

I remember that some brands like Rex, Rockwell, whose razors made of 316L, give lifetime warranty.
Is it possible to get lifetime warranty against corrosion for Blackland Razors? 

Also it could be nice if you can inform me about:
What is the machining cost or machining time difference, if you use 316L or 303 for your razors?

I can't comment on the PILS because the photo links are long-dead.

Your bathroom sink is not a highly corrosive environment. Your razor gets a dip in fresh water for about 6 minutes a day before it's set up to dry for the next 23.9 hours. This is not a corrosive environment. If you tend to toss your razor into the sea for a few days at a time then you're dealing with a corrosive environment.

Show me where corrosion is specifically mentioned in any warranty. There is no rust-proof steel. A razor that has heavily corroded is a razor that was poorly cared for. This can happen with 316L. It is not impervious. I still shave with my original Blackbird from 2015. It has somehow managed to not fall apart. By the way, I do back my products for life regardless of whether it's the original owner or not.

Prices would jump if we switched to 316L and the customer would not benefit in any way except for the ability to claim their razor was made of 316L.

Honestly, I think you're overly worried about corrosion. It's really not much of a concern for this kind of product. It does not sneak up several years later as you implied. That's just not how rust works. If you spot surface rust transfer from a blade, wipe it off with a cloth. If that doesn't do the trick, dip the cloth in vinegar. If you are tremendously worried about corrosion, just make sure you always get a polished razor. Polishing decreases the surface area making corrosion much less likely.

Edit: I live in San Francisco. High humidity. My bathroom doesn't have a vent fan so it's rarely completely dry. Door hinges and light fixtures rust quickly. It's probably as corrosive a bathroom as there is. Zero corrosion on my razors. And I'm not particularly careful with them.

I can't comment on the PILS because the photo links are long-dead.

Your bathroom sink is not a highly corrosive environment. Your razor gets a dip in fresh water for about 6 minutes a day before it's set up to dry for the next 23.9 hours. This is not a corrosive environment. If you tend to toss your razor into the sea for a few days at a time then you're dealing with a corrosive environment.

Show me where corrosion is specifically mentioned in any warranty. There is no rust-proof steel. A razor that has heavily corroded is a razor that was poorly cared for. This can happen with 316L. It is not impervious. I still shave with my original Blackbird from 2015. It has somehow managed to not fall apart. By the way, I do back my products for life regardless of whether it's the original owner or not.

Prices would jump if we switched to 316L and the customer would not benefit in any way except for the ability to claim their razor was made of 316L.

Honestly, I think you're overly worried about corrosion. It's really not much of a concern for this kind of product. It does not sneak up several years later as you implied. That's just not how rust works. If you spot surface rust transfer from a blade, wipe it off with a cloth. If that doesn't do the trick, dip the cloth in vinegar. If you are tremendously worried about corrosion, just make sure you always get a polished razor. Polishing decreases the surface area making corrosion much less likely.

Edit: I live in San Francisco. High humidity. My bathroom doesn't have a vent fan so it's rarely completely dry. Door hinges and light fixtures rust quickly. It's probably as corrosive a bathroom as there is. Zero corrosion on my razors. And I'm not particularly careful with them.

Shane,
Thanks for reply. 

I attached the Rockwell guarantee, it is saying any cosmetic imperfection happened they are replacing parts for free. 
I think cosmetic imperfection covers rust, too. 
https://getrockwell.com/pages/lifetime-guarantee

I don't think that is what Rockwell means:

"If your razor arrives with any sort of defect, be it a manufacturing flaw or cosmetic imperfection, we will send you a replacement"

What I read here is this - if your razor arrives with cosmetic flaws, not develops cosmetic flaws over time.

I don't think that is what Rockwell means:

"If your razor arrives with any sort of defect, be it a manufacturing flaw or cosmetic imperfection, we will send you a replacement"

What I read here is this - if your razor arrives with cosmetic flaws, not develops cosmetic flaws over time.

I emailed them, to ask lifetime warranty covers rust or not. i will add their reply here.