Have We Reached Peak Soap?

I find this discussion very interesting.  The beauty of it all is that no matter what our skin type is we can probably find something that works and forums have helped men like DanLaw and others who may have extremely sensitive skin or other issues related to whisker type learn about and sample alternatives that have helped them achieve at least tolerable shaves.  Its too easy to just say - "if you're so sensitive why don't you grow a beard?" But that isn't always the answer, you may work in a job where you can't wear a beard, you may not like the way your beard grows or you just might prefer to be clean shaven. The point is, with innovation its becoming less uncomfortable for many men to shave the way they want and that's a great thing.

... Or you may not be able to grow a beard. That's my answer to "why don't I just grow a beard". After a week or so, the hair follicles are red, swollen, and painful. I cannot have a beard, evening if I wanted.

Super sensitive pale, freckled skin mixed with course wirey red hair. Someone screwed up this genetic recipe big-time. Lol.

Thank goodness for good soaps.

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"Peak" as regards ACTUAL & FUNCTIONAL shave quality, yes years ago. Scents and PSF are entirely separate issues and are subjective at best and in the end add nothing to........here it comes again......actual & functional shave quality. I can get just as perfect a shave from a Stirling soap as I can from any other artisan. For that matter, I get perfect shaves from tallow Palmolive sticks. The PSFM (Post Shave Feel Matters) crowd has fueled the industry due to a few "influensters" more than anything and this has played into the hands of those artisans trying to make a $, but that's what a free market is about. Let the buyers decide. 

I just coined that term PSFM. Patent pending.    

I disagree, but I digress as others have already touched on my point AND there's a more important point missed  here...

I refuse to buy into your statement that we are exactly the same as the early / mid 1900s. Really... Palmolive?! It shaves well enough, but it also leaves you needing a shower and a confession booth.  However, it is formulated to go on like a smooth, safe household lead paint. Ahh, it'll go so well with that thalidomide!

If you said we haven't made a big improvement in the last 3 years, I'd ponder it. Since the Palmolive days?!? Nope.

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Where did I write what you said? 

"For that matter, I get perfect shaves from tallow Palmolive sticks"

I had to guesstimate the dates. I couldn't find a hard and fast date the Palmolive you mentioned first came into use. I think it was moreso 1915-20... But 1950s fits so much better as a joke with the other "great products" ... Lead paint and thalidomide.

I know the Palmolive formula has changed, improved, and evolved since it's inception. It just isn't in the same class as Stirling (the other you mentioned) or a lot of newer soaps.

I wasn't kidding about the yucky filmy feeling. Palmolive is a hard pass for me. 

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I find this discussion very interesting.  The beauty of it all is that no matter what our skin type is we can probably find something that works and forums have helped men like DanLaw and others who may have extremely sensitive skin or other issues related to whisker type learn about and sample alternatives that have helped them achieve at least tolerable shaves.  Its too easy to just say - "if you're so sensitive why don't you grow a beard?" But that isn't always the answer, you may work in a job where you can't wear a beard, you may not like the way your beard grows or you just might prefer to be clean shaven. The point is, with innovation its becoming less uncomfortable for many men to shave the way they want and that's a great thing.

... Or you may not be able to grow a beard. That's my answer to "why don't I just grow a beard". After a week or so, the hair follicles are red, swollen, and painful. I cannot have a beard, evening if I wanted.

Super sensitive pale, freckled skin mixed with course wirey red hair. Someone screwed up this genetic recipe big-time. Lol.

Thank goodness for good soaps.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

I actually considered that and thought I'd cover it with "you may not like the way your beard comes in". There is no doubt that genetics is a lottery that some win and some don't on various attributes with beards and the old baldness/thinning being up there.  I guess it could be a lot worse

I find this discussion very interesting.  The beauty of it all is that no matter what our skin type is we can probably find something that works and forums have helped men like DanLaw and others who may have extremely sensitive skin or other issues related to whisker type learn about and sample alternatives that have helped them achieve at least tolerable shaves.  Its too easy to just say - "if you're so sensitive why don't you grow a beard?" But that isn't always the answer, you may work in a job where you can't wear a beard, you may not like the way your beard grows or you just might prefer to be clean shaven. The point is, with innovation its becoming less uncomfortable for many men to shave the way they want and that's a great thing.

... Or you may not be able to grow a beard. That's my answer to "why don't I just grow a beard". After a week or so, the hair follicles are red, swollen, and painful. I cannot have a beard, evening if I wanted.

Super sensitive pale, freckled skin mixed with course wirey red hair. Someone screwed up this genetic recipe big-time. Lol.

Thank goodness for good soaps.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

I actually considered that and thought I'd cover it with "you may not like the way your beard comes in". There is no doubt that genetics is a lottery that some win and some don't on various attributes with beards and the old baldness/thinning being up there.  I guess it could be a lot worse

Amen my friend. All in all, I didn't do that badly.

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In an earlier post Dragonsbeard commented that soapmakers may have to use less expensive ingredients to keep soap prices affordable. 

Yesterday, I was thinking about some of the great fragrances I used as a young man: British Stirling, English Leather, Old Spice, etc. Those fragrances are still available, sort of. The new versions have been modified to sell at a less expensive price point. The current products are only vaguely reminiscent of their vintage counterparts.

We have already seen  reformulations of some of traditional shaving soaps and creams with mixed results. Many people claim the vintage products are superior. Thus, I hope we do not see soap quality peak and then decline as a result of a drive to lower prices. Even Walmart has abandoned its "Always Low Prices" slogan.

In an earlier post Dragonsbeard commented that soapmakers may have to use less expensive ingredients to keep soap prices affordable. 

Yesterday, I was thinking about some of the great fragrances I used as a young man: British Stirling, English Leather, Old Spice, etc. Those fragrances are still available, sort of. The new versions have been modified to sell at a less expensive price point. The current products are only vaguely reminiscent of their vintage counterparts.

We have already seen  reformulations of some of traditional shaving soaps and creams with mixed results. Many people claim the vintage products are superior. Thus, I hope we do not see soap quality peak and then decline as a result of a drive to lower prices. Even Walmart has abandoned its "Always Low Prices" slogan.

That's a good point. The dollar (yen, euro, etc.) dosen't go as far as it used to. I can definitely see that accounting for a more expensive soap... Especially when you account for the scaricity of some oils (was there always a sandalwood shortage?).

Still, maybe there's other factors in there, too? I don't know how many of these vintage soaps thought much of skincare (or knew much about it). A wise man once told me the shaving soap industry is still well behind the skincare industry (you know who you are ). Perhaps, as all costs have steadily risen, these additional skin-friendly ingredients have added a multiplier to that impact of inflation on shaving soaps?

Along with the costs rising of basically everything, something had to give? The first thing to be sacrificed appears to have been low costs. Prices have skyrocked as compared to the good ole days. Then other vendors see that and look to share these cut elsewhere? Cheaper soap, but less (or artificial) scents? Good scents, but not as skin protectant? I could go on.

I don't make soap, though I am planning on auditioning for a walk-on role as a soapmaker in General Hospital (no I'm not). I do see, however, that it's a huge puzzle with price, scent, skincare, and utility all playing a part.

With the variances of skin-types, the mix of scents available, and the variances of budgets... I don't think we can ever definitively say we're at the 'finish line'.

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Just out of curiosity, how many of you who seem to be suffering from a whole host of skin ailments have actually seen a licensed dermatologist? 

I have been involved with dermatologists since a child

I'm old enough to remember when English Leather was considered a top shelf, utterly groovy cologne. It was considered light years ahead of after shaves like Mennen and Aqua Velva. The same can be said for British Sterling, Brut, etc. And let us not forget Canoe, Faberge Woodhue, and the gimmicky colognes like Jade East and Hai Karate. 

There was great demand for these when they hit the market. This was an era when most men would not dream of paying a fortune for a bottle of scent. You bought your after shave or cologne at the drug store, not at Sak's. 

The manufacturers of these fragrances were acquired by huge companies or they closed. As demand waned, the fragrances were discontinued or, in many cases, the formulas changed to keep prices down. So yes, today a bottle of Brut smells like Brut of old but not completely. 

The same fate is likely in store for shaving soaps but only to the extent the artisans are acquired by large corporations with no guarantee the formulas will remain unchanged. I don't see that happening, for the most part. A soapmaker like Barrister & Mann, for example, gains market share by offering something that you can't get for the same price elsewhere. Whether that's scent, performance, post-shave feel or a combination of the above. If B&M started cutting corners and using inferior ingredients, and if the change were noticeable, complaints would likely follow and sales would decline if they failed to take out the improvements. Now, if Unilever were to buy B&M, it might not notice or care if, after awhile, sales declined. It might buy the company solely to get rid of a competing brand. 

I don't think, though, that as long as the artisans who founded the companies continue to run them that the quality will decline. If the ownership changes, we'll have to wait and see. 

The bottom line is that big corporations tend not to devote the time and attention to niche products unless those products are big money makers or bring lots of prestige to the brand. Individuals who devote the time, energy, and money to a small business often view it as a labor of love as much as a source of income. And we can usually trust them to maintain the quality we have come to expect from their products. 

There is an other end to the curve folks.  Oily skin.  

I enjoy reading about the soaps, scents and folks being happy with the PSF.  But this 'Peak Soap' phenomenon is strictly a spectator sport.  The fatty soaps are not good for my face.  Some have caused my skin to breakout.  Others just feel awful like I dunked my face in a bucket of Takilube and no amount of work can remove it.  Just have to let it wear off.  Some boutique soaps I thought would work are no good if used back to back let alone daily.  Even Tabac I've found is a bit over the top for back to back shaves.  The skin just needs a break from all the grease and fat.  My face doesn't need food, it needs soap.

There's a few artisans out there that seem to have a stable customer base for what they offer and they're not chasing the over the top PSF.  They make soap that rinses easily and leave the skin clean and fresh.  Some of the classic soaps I've tried are wonderful too.  Just beginning that rabbit hole.  Everyone has a different face, luckily there's a soap out there for you.  The face food super fat soap is cool, good for the majority.  But not universally good for everyone.  

Here's a lovely artisan soap that works;
Ingredients;  Stearic Acid, water, coconut oil, shea butter, potassium hydroxide, glycerin, sodium hydroxide, castor oil, fragrance.

Here's La Toja it's great;
Ingerdients;  Potassium Stearate, Potassium Cocate, Potassium Palmitate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua, Glycerin, Sodium Cocate, Sodium Palmitate, Coconut Acid, Parfum, Mineral Salts, Coumarin, Limonene, Linalool, Butylphenyl, Mehylpropional, Tetrasodium EDTA, Litro Sodium Etidronate- Cl 77891.  (The last handful are what, preservatives?)

Tabac on the edge;
Ingredients;  Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Potassium Tallowate, Potassium Cocoate, Aqua, Sodium Tallowate, Parfum, Sodium Cocoate, Glycerin, Potassium Hydroxide, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Sodium Hydroxide, CI 77891, Limonene, Hydroxycitronellal, Linalool, Citronellol, Courmarin, Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone, Geraniol, Evernia Prunastri (Oakmoss) Extract, Cinnamyl Alcohol, Isoeugenol, Benzyl Salicylate, Benzyl Alcohol, Eugenol, Citral, Evernia Furfuracea (Treemoss) Extract.

Here's one that does not work at all;
Ingredients;  Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua, Donkey Milk, Water Buffalo Milk, Donkey Milk Whey, Water Buffalo Milk Whey, Glycerin, Potassium Tallowate, Sodium Tallowate, Potassium Ricinoleate, Sodium Ricinoleate, Potassium Shea Butterate, Sodium Shea Butterate, Garcinia Indica (Kokum) Butter, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Butter, Hydrolyzed Linseed, Linoleic Acid, Linolenic Acid, Humulus Lupulus (Hops) Extract, Lanolin, Fragrance, Phenoxyethanol, Caprylyl Glycol, Sorbic Acid

As always YMMV!