A serious question on Soap/Cream Reviews

In the case of one of the major sites, they charge SO much for vendor fees, no up and coming artisan, (hardware or software) can afford them. Mostly, even when "crowd" excitement got to be overwhelming, (sometimes vendor, sometimes hobbyist), entire threads would disappear, even when there were hundreds of followers and fans. (Shout out to a guy who does beautiful Cerakote type restores..).

In the case of this particular major site, there are only a couple of "Non-Paying" artisans or shops who have managed to become so popular (I can only imagine the Skype talks among mods...), that I think they have to just let them go, but I can honestly think of only two or three.

Either way, even though I spout that, "It's just soap!", if we can't speak up about it, what's the point?


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Please tell me that Delta Echo threads aren't being deleted in other forums.  That's just wrong lol.

It wouldn't surprise me.

Ditto.

I view reviews as an evaluation based on certain criteria the reviewer has for evaluating the product under review. In this sense reviews are considered or learned opinions, which to me at least means they carry more weight than an opinion based solely on one's preferences. Let us also remember that an opinion can also be a fact. It appears to me that our culture has bought into the relativism of the age, believing that all opinions are equally valid, when in fact they are not.
If I like a soap and another person doesn't, that is just a difference of opinion based in my preferences and the other person's.
However, if I say, "This soap performs better than that soap based on these five criteria," it is still my opinion, but it is based upon the fact that I tested them and found that one performs better. One has to dispute my method or my data here before dismissing my opinion on this matter.
The first statement is "just my opinion," but the second is my "considered and learned" opinion based on my observations and the facts I've collected. The second carries more weight than the first, as it should.

I view reviews as an evaluation based on certain criteria the reviewer has for evaluating the product under review. In this sense reviews are considered or learned opinions, which to me at least means they carry more weight than an opinion based solely on one's preferences. Let us also remember that an opinion can also be a fact. It appears to me that our culture has bought into the relativism of the age, believing that all opinions are equally valid, when in fact they are not.
If I like a soap and another person doesn't, that is just a difference of opinion based in my preferences and the other person's.
However, if I say, "This soap performs better than that soap based on these five criteria," it is still my opinion, but it is based upon the fact that I tested them and found that one performs better. One has to dispute my method or my data here before dismissing my opinion on this matter.
The first statement is "just my opinion," but the second is my "considered and learned" opinion based on my observations and the facts I've collected. The second carries more weight than the first, as it should.

Great post! Especially ^that part.

Interesting, but my opinion is only my fact, it doesn't make it a statement of facts for everybody to follow or accept as such.

MarshalArtist you're pointing out that applying the scientific method to testing a soap's performance is superior to just a bare claim and in that you are absolutely correct. The current trend that everybody has, and is entitled to an opinion on everything no matter how complex the issue may be and how learned or thoughtful the person is an indication of the absurdity of our time. Some yobo with a smartphone can voice an opinion on quantum physics or climate change and if enough people click the thumbs up icon on whatever social media platform being used, that opinion can rival that of highly trained actual experts in the minds of the masses - this then is promoted by the mainstream media and you have the next ignorance-based celebrity cause. Life is beautiful.
Marko

if I say, "This soap performs better than that soap based on these five criteria," it is still my opinion, but it is based upon the fact that I tested them and found that one performs better.

I concur. However, the validity of your claim is only based upon your "sample" size. If the numbers of items tested is 10, then the validity is far less than if the number of items is a magnitude greater at 100.

Experience matters a great deal simply because of the extremes, that is, you might not have tried the really bad stuff yet nor tried the really great stuff yet. This is why crowd sourcing "opinions" from say 100,000 users is far more valuable than just a handful of enthusiasts on a website.

 if I say, "This soap performs better than that soap based on these five criteria," it is still my opinion, but it is based upon the fact that I tested them and found that one performs better.  

I concur. However, the validity of your claim is only based upon your "sample" size. If the numbers of items tested is 10, then the validity is far less than if the number of items is a magnitude greater at 100.

Experience matters a great deal simply because of the extremes, that is, you might not have tried the really bad stuff  yet nor tried the really great stuff yet. This is why crowd sourcing "opinions" from say 100,000 users is far more valuable than just a handful of enthusiasts on a website.

How is ignorance magnified better? My understanding of crowd sourcing / crowd funding is that the crowd is betting on a concept and nothing more - they've never actually touched or sampled the product. I'll take the opinions of a dozen actual experts over the roar of the ignorant masses any day.

To be fair, however, I do take your point in that how 100,000 people have spent their money, perhaps repeatedly to acquire a product does speak louder than a handful of "enthusiasts" (as distinguished from experts) - you don't know the enthusiast's motivation or whether there is monetary gain involved or if they're shadow promoting their own product or if they just plain have bad taste

How is ignorance magnified better?  My understanding of crowd sourcing / crowd funding is that the crowd is betting on a concept and nothing more - they've never actually touched or sampled the product.  I'll take the opinions of a dozen actual experts over the roar of the ignorant masses any day.  

To be fair, however, I do take your point in that how 100,000 people have spent their money, perhaps repeatedly to acquire a product does speak louder than a handful of "enthusiasts" (as distinguished from experts) - you don't know the enthusiast's motivation or whether there is monetary gain involved or if they're shadow promoting their own product or if they just plain have bad taste

Sorry if that was confusing. I did not mean crowdsourcing in the sense of Crowd Funding. We are not talking Kickstarter.

I meant it in this sense ... I have not tried Czech & Speake soap yet. I have read many, many people rave about it and not a single word that its "bad" (other than complaining about price). If thousands of people across the internet think its good, then there is a strong chance its good.

The same is true here. If you have tried 10 soaps then your sample size is small relative to the guy who has tried 100 soaps.

grim I picked up on that half way through typing my reply which is why I think my second paragraph addresses what you actually said. It looks like we're basically in agreement.

To add to your reasoning though, I would say that indications of return customers and product longevity are a better indicator than pure volumes - lots of people can get tricked into buying the product once who wouldn't buy it again. I assume that you would hear about that though wouldn't you. eventually.

An example of a soap that has survived for a long time with both good and bad reviews would be Tabac. I fall into the "love it" camp - I used it this morning to have a frame of reference for when I use the new Fine American Blend soap tomorrow. Tabac is a great performer and I enjoy the scent. The Fine soap is being promoted as "quite possibly" made by the same people that make Tabac. My initial impression without having actually used it is, "I don't think so but maybe". The puck is smaller than the Tabac puck and the ingredients listed, while similar are not identical. We'll see tomorrow after I lather it up and give it a go. It smells nice and I'm optimistic.

Interesting, but my opinion is only my fact, it doesn't make it a statement of facts for everybody to follow or accept as such.

No, a fact is true whether we like it or believe it. My opinion based on facts carries more weight because of the information I have to support it. You might disagree with my conclusion, but a fact is fact no matter what you conclude.
My real statement is that people tend to think their preferences are equally as valid as someone's considered opinion that is based on an actual inquiry with set criteria and background knowledge of and experience with the subject matter. This is about the rhetorical and logical implications of claiming all reviews are "just someone's opinion." In some cases, they are just that; however, a more learned evaluation is not as easily disregarded even if we come to a different conclusion.