A serious question on Soap/Cream Reviews

I guess to get back to the topic just a bit, I received a handful of soaps lately, both from Wholly Kaw and from the Shaving Shop online.  All six of them impressed me.  I don't really have a bad thing to say about any of them.  I got no skin irritation, they were slick, protective, and they were all by miscellaneous artisans:

Shaving Shop:
Deal Maker (Allegedly Caties Bubbles)
Hedonism (Soap Smooth)
Springtime in Paris (Gingers Garden)
Acqua di Florida (Gingers Garden)

Wholly Kaw:
Fougere Bouquet
Lav Sublime

I'm not kidding, all of these soaps were great.  Definite keepers.  I will definitely do a critical review if I get something I hate in the future but so far so good.  There are just so many good soaps out there, I think that the bad ones out there are few and far between these days.

SCShaver that looks like a great haul!  How were they for scent? If you feel comfortable giving a scent rating on a scale of 1-10 I'd appreciate it.  I find that I can sometimes be disappointed in an otherwise very good to excellent soap that IMO falls short on the scent.  I'll only judge those soaps that claim to have scent on this basis - obviously MWF is an excellent soap that smells like soap but doesn't claim otherwise so I'm happy with it - my expectations are met.  On the other hand, CB's Menage de Lavande claims to be the ultimate lavender bomb which its not.  I expected a lot of lavender and I didn't get it so I'm disappointed.  The key to happiness is apparently, low expectations.  To balance out my criticism of CB Menage de Lavande I'll have to say that CB's Midnight Dreary is one of my favourite soaps for scent and performance.  
Marko

Marko, I'm not sure if you want scent descriptions, you might be better off going to the websites for these. Sometimes I do a decent job at describing scents but typically thats better off with the vendor.

Shaving Shop:
Deal Maker (Allegedly Caties Bubbles) - I would give this scent a 6 out of 10 for scent strength and it is very unique, very much like the Fahrenheit cologne is is supposed to embody.
Hedonism (Soap Smooth) - This is stout, probably a 7.5 or 8 out of 10 scent strength and again, a very nice but sweet men's cologne.
Springtime in Paris (Gingers Garden) - this is a ferny and fresh fougere, but probably about 5.5 out of 10 on scent strength to me.  I like this scent alot.
Acqua di Florida (Gingers Garden) - definitely a nice take on citrus, meant to model the Florida Water, its spicy but citrus as well.  Fantastic scent 6 out of 10 strength.

Wholly Kaw:
Fougere Bouquet - this is a spicy fougere that to me, could almost be used in the fall.  I love this, it sort of reminds me of Pannacrema Blu, but lighter scented 5 out of 10 strength.
Lav Sublime - this is lime and lavender and nothing else.  Would like it just a bit stronger, its around 4 out of 10 scent strength to me.  
Performance is off the charts for the Wholly Kaw by the way.

hrfdez I did see some dustup about artisans being artisans, what is an artisan,  and what not.  Perhaps I should say soapmakers going forward????? Hmm.....=D

I guess to get back to the topic just a bit, I received a handful of soaps lately, both from Wholly Kaw and from the Shaving Shop online.  All six of them impressed me.  I don't really have a bad thing to say about any of them.  I got no skin irritation, they were slick, protective, and they were all by miscellaneous artisans:

Shaving Shop:
Deal Maker (Allegedly Caties Bubbles)
Hedonism (Soap Smooth)
Springtime in Paris (Gingers Garden)
Acqua di Florida (Gingers Garden)

Wholly Kaw:
Fougere Bouquet
Lav Sublime

I'm not kidding, all of these soaps were great.  Definite keepers.  I will definitely do a critical review if I get something I hate in the future but so far so good.  There are just so many good soaps out there, I think that the bad ones out there are few and far between these days.

SCShaver that looks like a great haul!  How were they for scent? If you feel comfortable giving a scent rating on a scale of 1-10 I'd appreciate it.  I find that I can sometimes be disappointed in an otherwise very good to excellent soap that IMO falls short on the scent.  I'll only judge those soaps that claim to have scent on this basis - obviously MWF is an excellent soap that smells like soap but doesn't claim otherwise so I'm happy with it - my expectations are met.  On the other hand, CB's Menage de Lavande claims to be the ultimate lavender bomb which its not.  I expected a lot of lavender and I didn't get it so I'm disappointed.  The key to happiness is apparently, low expectations.  To balance out my criticism of CB Menage de Lavande I'll have to say that CB's Midnight Dreary is one of my favourite soaps for scent and performance.  
Marko

Marko, I'm not sure if you want scent descriptions, you might be better off going to the websites for these. Sometimes I do a decent job at describing scents but typically thats better off with the vendor.

Shaving Shop:
Deal Maker (Allegedly Caties Bubbles) - I would give this scent a 6 out of 10 for scent strength and it is very unique, very much like the Fahrenheit cologne is is supposed to embody.
Hedonism (Soap Smooth) - This is stout, probably a 7.5 or 8 out of 10 scent strength and again, a very nice but sweet men's cologne.
Springtime in Paris (Gingers Garden) - this is a ferny and fresh fougere, but probably about 5.5 out of 10 on scent strength to me.  I like this scent alot.
Acqua di Florida (Gingers Garden) - definitely a nice take on citrus, meant to model the Florida Water, its spicy but citrus as well.  Fantastic scent 6 out of 10 strength.

Wholly Kaw:
Fougere Bouquet - this is a spicy fougere that to me, could almost be used in the fall.  I love this, it sort of reminds me of Pannacrema Blu, but lighter scented 5 out of 10 strength.
Lav Sublime - this is lime and lavender and nothing else.  Would like it just a bit stronger, its around 4 out of 10 scent strength to me.  
Performance is off the charts for the Wholly Kaw by the way.

hrfdez I did see some dustup about artisans being artisans, what is an artisan,  and what not.  Perhaps I should say soapmakers going forward????? Hmm.....=D

Lol, is all fun to me. I don't go cabin fever my friend.

I view reviews as an evaluation based on certain criteria the reviewer has for evaluating the product under review. In this sense reviews are considered or learned opinions, which to me at least means they carry more weight than an opinion based solely on one's preferences. Let us also remember that an opinion can also be a fact. It appears to me that our culture has bought into the relativism of the age, believing that all opinions are equally valid, when in fact they are not.
If I like a soap and another person doesn't, that is just a difference of opinion based in my preferences and the other person's.
However, if I say, "This soap performs better than that soap based on these five criteria," it is still my opinion, but it is based upon the fact that I tested them and found that one performs better. One has to dispute my method or my data here before dismissing my opinion on this matter.
The first statement is "just my opinion," but the second is my "considered and learned" opinion based on my observations and the facts I've collected. The second carries more weight than the first, as it should.

MarshalArtist you're pointing out that applying the scientific method to testing a soap's performance is superior to just a bare claim and in that you are absolutely correct.  The current trend that everybody has, and is entitled to an opinion on everything no matter how complex the issue may be and how learned or thoughtful the person is an indication of the absurdity of our time.  Some yobo with a smartphone can voice an opinion on quantum physics or climate change and if enough people click the thumbs up icon on whatever social media platform being used, that opinion can rival that of highly trained actual experts in the minds of the masses - this then is promoted by the mainstream media and you have the next ignorance-based celebrity cause.  Life is beautiful.
Marko

Seems like a good time to add this link, which is one of my favourites (sorry about the minor derail): http://www.iflscience.com/brain/no-youre...ur-opinion

David, an excellent article, thanks for sharing it - I love this line
"And this attitude feeds, I suggest, into the false equivalence between experts and non-experts that is an increasingly pernicious feature of our public discourse."
One must also keep in mind that even so called "experts" are not immune to the various human foibles - greed, jealousy, malice and so forth. This is why its so important in our little world of things shaving that when an expert reviews a product they must come clean regarding inducements. The presence of inducements doesn't necessarily make the review wrong but putting it out in the open keeps everyone honest.

SCShaver - thats exactly what I was looking for - just strength. Thanks. I've been trying to get some Wholly Kaw but the few places that carry it up north have been sold out for a while. I'm trying to avoid shipping costs.
Marko

Well said Marko!

Most reviewers are biased to some extent imho. It may be that they are biased against a brand, scent, price range, etc, but I believe some bias almost always exists. I still enjoy reading and watching reviews, but I think it's obvious when there is bias present.

The best method I can think of to have honest and fair reviews is to use sample sizes of unscented soaps in unmarked identical containers. The soaps would range from very cheap to very expensive, from both artisan and commercial brands, and the brands up for review would not be mentioned until after the reviews. A specific person would know which soaps were being tested and assign numbers or letters to each soap. The idea is it would be nearly impossible to know which soaps are being reviewed. I saw something similar at The Shave Den, but they used scented soaps and I think they told the reviewers which brands of soap were included for review. Thus, it was a great idea but had poor execution imo. Anyway, I would love to see this type of review if we could find enough candidates willing to participate. We could make donations to pay for the soaps so that the reviewers don't have to cover the expenses. The people reviewing the soaps would just have to ship them to the next person, and so on. It would also be best if the reviews were video taped so we could see the lather and hear the reviewer's thoughts after using each soap. Whether or not this ever happens, it sure would be interesting. I think there would be some big surprises.

I would like to see something like this, as a double blind, but also you would need to have some training for the raters so that they could be more objective about what they are testing. Gillette does this with their testing labs. They have various test shavers who are well trained and experienced in the nuances of shaving with cartridge razors and this is similar to coffee and wine tasters. People can become experts in detecting differences in quality, but they have to learn the proper testing and evaluation techniques.

Maybe we need to start a training and certification program? Assuming that one doesn't already exist that is. I think its important that when one "judges" a product they should be qualified and there should be a general agreement as to what the criteria for judging are. The artisans (don't go there) themselves should form a Guild that would have commonly accepted criteria and even training for judges. Its done for beer judges (a serious business) so why not shaving soap?
Marko

SCShaver - thats exactly what I was looking for - just strength. Thanks. I've been trying to get some Wholly Kaw but the few places that carry it up north have been sold out for a while. I'm trying to avoid shipping costs.
Marko

Marko I've got two more Wholly Kaw coming in this week. Jamestown Gentleman and Melange de Sante. Maybe I'll hit you up in a PM if you wanted to know scent strength of those bud.

Maybe we need to start a training and certification program?  Assuming that one doesn't already exist that is.  I think its important that when one "judges" a product they should be qualified and there should be a general agreement as to what the criteria for judging are.  The artisans (don't go there) themselves should form a Guild that would have commonly accepted criteria and even training for judges.  Its done for beer judges (a serious business) so why not shaving soap?
Marko

Soap-ommoliere?

Maybe we need to start a training and certification program? ... Its done for beer judges (a serious business) so why not shaving soap?

So you want the Consumer Reports version - independent testing where the reviewers have no vested interest in the results. I like it. Maybe JD Power can hand out Initial Quality Awards.

BTW, there is an independent place for cars called True Delta. http://www.truedelta.com

The reviews are NOT shy. People call crap - crap and when they are happy, they express it. This is crowd sourcing. It has over 100,000 participants. Want to know about a Honda Civic? Go here http://www.truedelta.com/Honda-Civic/reliability-109 The same thing could hold true for soap. Someone just needs to set up the website.

Maybe we need to start a training and certification program? Assuming that one doesn't already exist that is. I think its important that when one "judges" a product they should be qualified and there should be a general agreement as to what the criteria for judging are. The artisans (don't go there) themselves should form a Guild that would have commonly accepted criteria and even training for judges. Its done for beer judges (a serious business) so why not shaving soap?
Marko

As much as I would love to see this I don't think that will happen, at least for a very long time. Some of us who are shaving hobbyists and the soap makers might be interested in something like this but TBH there probably aren't enough of us in the wet shaving community that are interested in knowing the nuances and relative rankings of various soaps. Considering that you can get a great shave from Proraso, AOS, TOBS, DRH, T&H, GFT, and many other easily found products in many areas I'm not sure the majority of people that wet shave really care about whether A is slicker than B as long as they can enjoy a shave that beats a can of gel and a cart razor. If I didn't stumble across the boards and get really interested in it I'd still be happy to shave with my Merku 27C LHC, Omega boar brush, Proraso Green and white and Merkur blades.