A really bad experience from Van Yulay customer service

Let me be the bad guy...

Its July. Its hot. Your soap went from the artisan to post office sorting facility or two, in the back of a hot truck without air conditioning, to another post office warehouse by truck, to your local PO sorting, to another hot ass truck, and finally to sit in your hot mailbox all day until you came home from work.

There is very likely nothing wrong with your soap that a little cold cant cure.

The artisan cannot be expected to control their own quality, the heat, the air conditioning in the post office warehouses, and the heat in your mailbox.

Many artisans explicitly state that ordering during the heat of summer poses potential risks.

This isnt an excuse, it is a legitimate reason for why your product looks as it does.

Full refund or free soap? I think it is you that is being unreasonable. The response you received may not be what you wanted to hear, but it is accurate and does not in any way appear ungrateful or inconsiderate.

I would recommend buying soft soaps in spring, fall, and winter, when the weather has less effect on the appearance of it...put the soft soaps on hold for 3 months, and use what you have...

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You make legitimate points BadDad, however, as a consumer, it is not unreasonable to expect consistency from products that you purchase. I would have asked politely, yet firmly, that I would like a replacement. I would NOT open a case against the seller, unless refused.

So lets look at it hypothetically:

Artisan makes soft soaps and lives in Michigan, where the average temperature is about 85*F.

Customer A lives in Vermont where the average temperature is about 80*F.

Customer B lives in the MOjave Desert where the average temperature is about 110*F.

Customer A and B order the same soap on the same day. Artisan ships soaps to both customers when temperature is 80*F at their location.

Customer A receives beautiful soap at their location, temperature is 85*F.

Customer B receives a tub of liquid that they have to put in the freezer for a half hour to solidify. Temperature is 105*F.

Who is really at fault for the tub of liquid?

Better question: What responsibility does the artisan have to ensure quality of the product once it leaves their possession and passes through 100 different hands before arriving at the destination?

So lets look at it hypothetically:

Artisan makes soft soaps and lives in Michigan, where the average temperature is about 85*F.

Customer A lives in Vermont where the average temperature is about 80*F.

Customer B lives in the MOjave Desert where the average temperature is about 110*F.

Customer A and B order the same soap on the same day. Artisan ships soaps to both customers when temperature is 80*F at their location.

Customer A receives beautiful soap at their location, temperature is 85*F.

Customer B receives a tub of liquid that they have to put in the freezer for a half hour to solidify. Temperature is 105*F.

Who is really at fault for the tub of liquid?

Better question: What responsibility does the artisan have to ensure quality of the product once it leaves their possession and passes through 100 different hands before arriving at the destination?

Excellent question. I think it's similar to ordering fresh fruit online. I believe it's the sellers responsibility to package the product and choose the appropriate shipping method to ensure that their product arrives in the exact same condition as it leaves the factory. As the consumer, I will then make the choice to order the product---or not, based upon cost, service, reputation, quality and not calendar month.

When you sell a product, you have to be sure it will reach the customer in good condition. As I see it, it's not in good condition at all. I wouldn't be happy as well. The vendor/ artisan has a responsibility on this. Why? Because a good packaging can eliminate the possibility of receiving a product in such condition. This is the truth.

About the gentlemen that think this is nothing to worry about, I guess they do not have a problem as consumers to receive a product in bad condition and would not ask for a replacement or a refund in that case.

Excellent question. I think it's similar to ordering fresh fruit online. I believe it's the sellers responsibility to package the product and choose the appropriate shipping method to ensure that their product arrives in the exact same condition as it leaves the factory. As the consumer, I will then make the choice to order the product---or not, based upon cost, service, reputation, quality and not calendar month.  

That's fair enough, but isnt there also some responsibility on the part of the consumer to know their local weather, and refrain from buying heat-sensitive products when they know it will be hot?

I mean...I live in the middle of the desert. I dont order soft soaps now because I know they will be melted, at some point, in their journey to me. Hard soaps? No worries. Croaps? Definite problems, regardless of the due diligence of the artisan.

Afterall...packaging the soap with a bag full of dry ice would be just as detrimental as sending in the heat. The artisan would be screwed either way...

At the end of the day, we are talking about an aesthetic issue, not a performance issue. The soap is not going to look all flowery and pretty after 2-3 uses, anyhow, and here, it looks like any other soft soap on the market AFTER the heat "damage". The performance of the product is not effected.

Fruit is not a valid comparison. Most likely, fresh fruit would be shipped overnight in a refrigerated truck. You can request that kind of shipment for soaps in July, and they would arrive unscathed, I'm quite certain...

In live in Las Vegas, which is easily one of the hottest places in the US. So far I have not experienced anything like that. Yesterday I even had a Pure20 soap that had arrived and was sitting on my front porch for at least a couple hours. The soap was fine, which happens to be a very soft soap so I was worried. That package was also mistakenly sent to Nebraska by the wonderful post office, then back to NV which delayed it 3 days, thus giving me more reason to worry buy it was fine.

My guess is the only way a soap would melt like that is if it sat in direct sunlight for several hours at a time. It doesn't look like a very soft soap but I've never had one. Hope you enjoy it regardless. I'm sure it will be fine.

I have bough several soaps from Monica and have always had great experiences. I hope you get it worked out to your satisfaction.

But, I do agree about the heat. I postponed a road trip today until tomorrow because I was expecting a soap from Route 66. We have had over 60% humidity and heat indexes in the 100's the past week. Didn't want to take the chance on having it melt in the mailbox.

When you sell a product, you have to be sure it will reach the customer in good condition. As I see it, it's not in good condition at all. I wouldn't be happy as well. The vendor/ artisan has a responsibility on this. Why? Because a good packaging can eliminate the possibility of receiving a product in such condition. This is the truth.

About the gentlemen that think this is nothing to worry about, I guess they do not have a problem as consumers to receive a product in bad condition and would not ask for a  replacement or a refund in that case.

I would not demand a refund for a soft soap that melted in the heat in the middle of July when I live in the desert. You are correct.

I would not order a soft soap in the middle of July, knowing that I live in the desert, and that the soap will melt at some point in it's journey to me.

I am an observant consumer. I know the limitations of the USPS. I know the effect of heat on a croap. I avoid the situation by being proactive, and not ordering soft soaps in July. Or August. Or late-June.

When I was breeding snakes and shipping them across the country, I did everything in my power to ensure that the snakes would arrive at their destination alive and well, including refusing to ship an animal that has been paid for due to projected weather patterns. Most consumers were comfortable with this because it was life and death.

How happy would everyone be if Van Yulay took payments, and held the soaps until THEY determined it was safe to ship in, say, a month when it cools down? You own the soap, it is yours, boxed with your shipping label already in place. It just sits in their temperature controlled warehouse until the weather stabilizes at a low enough temperature to ensure shipments arrive in the same condition they leave, regardless of destination.

That would make you happy? I seriously doubt it. But that is seriously what it would take to ensure this kind of satisfaction.

And let's not forget that we are talking about the LOOK of the product, not the performance, the quality, the packaging, or the price...the look.

Excellent question. I think it's similar to ordering fresh fruit online. I believe it's the sellers responsibility to package the product and choose the appropriate shipping method to ensure that their product arrives in the exact same condition as it leaves the factory. As the consumer, I will then make the choice to order the product---or not, based upon cost, service, reputation, quality and not calendar month.  

That's fair enough, but isnt there also some responsibility on the part of the consumer to know their local weather, and refrain from buying heat-sensitive products when they know it will be hot?

I mean...I live in the middle of the desert. I dont order soft soaps now because I know they will be melted, at some point, in their journey to me. Hard soaps? No worries. Croaps? Definite problems, regardless of the due diligence of the artisan.

Afterall...packaging the soap with a bag full of dry ice would be just as detrimental as sending in the heat. The artisan would be screwed either way...

At the end of the day, we are talking about an aesthetic issue, not a performance issue. The soap is not going to look all flowery and pretty after 2-3 uses, anyhow, and here, it looks like any other soft soap on the market AFTER the heat "damage". The performance of the product is not effected.

Fruit is not a valid comparison. Most likely, fresh fruit would be shipped overnight in a refrigerated truck. You can request that kind of shipment for soaps in July, and they would arrive unscathed, I'm quite certain...

On the other hand, why the artisan/ vendors sell soft soaps to customers that live in areas with high temperatures during the summer period? What you say makes no sense, really.

And you can't be sure that the performance of a product that is artisan made and probably has no preservatives won't be affected by the heat. There is high possibility it will. For example, the scent can definitely change, like many characteristics of the soap itself. Many artisans can confirm that, there is no doubt on that.

On the other hand, why the artisan/ vendors sell soft soaps to customers that live in areas with high temperatures during the summer period? What you say makes no sense, really.

And you can't be sure that the performance of a product that is artisan made and probably has no preservatives won't be affected by the heat. There is high possibility it will. For example, the scent can definitely change, like many characteristics of the soap itself. Many artisans can confirm that, there is no doubt on that.

And then we end up with topics just like this one, bashing a vendor for refusing to sell..."I guess their business is strong enough that they don;t care to sell to one lowly customer. This is horrible customer service...

You see where I am going with this...

This is an on-going problem,. Everyone wants someone else to take responsibility. An artisan should not be expected to monitor the weather patterns in every location a consumer orders from. That's ludicrous.

If you want to order soft soaps in the heat of summer, request, AND PAY FOR, expedited shipping. UPS or FedEx ground, where it will stay in a temperature controlled truck and arrive at your location in 24 hours or less. Require signature service so the package isnt left in the sun on the porch throughout the day.

It can be avoided, but it should not rest entirely on the artisan. Consumers DO have a responsiblity to be diligent in their purchases...