Yaqi Single Edge AC style

Hi All,

After a few days of discussions with the rest of the mod team, we decided to keep this thread open and visible.  We'd all be naive if we didn't think that there weren't copies/dupes of popular items in the shaving ecosystem.  In fact, there's tons of dupes out there: soap and aftershave scents, razors, brush handles, etc....

Rather than trying to avoid discussion of clones/copies/dupes, maybe a better approach for artisans is to tell people why it's better to buy THEIR product(s) than what some knockoff company is producing.

Hi All,

After a few days of discussions with the rest of the mod team, we decided to keep this thread open and visible.  We'd all be naive if we didn't think that there weren't copies/dupes of popular items in the shaving ecosystem.  In fact, there's tons of dupes out there: soap and aftershave scents, razors, brush handles, etc....

Rather than trying to avoid discussion of clones/copies/dupes, maybe a better approach for artisans is to tell people why it's better to buy THEIR product(s) than what some knockoff company is producing.

Because we're the ones who made the damn thing. I'm blown away that it requires any more explanation than that. Reward makers. Reward small businesses who create the products that this forum relies on to discuss. You've chosen instead to reward those who take the hard work from others, who take advantage of their country's currency manipulation in order to produce products at a price that we who actually took the risk cannot compete with, and who will never participate here in our community. So instead of you guys taking that stand, your solution is that we have to spend our time moderating posts here in case a knock-off is shared so we can hop in to plead our case. I'll be doing just that, but I have a feeling that won't be as well received as you're making it sound.

They are taking the stance that they don't get to dictate what information we are allowed and not allowed to see. If they went that route, then they might as well close the RS-10 threads, the Mozingo threads, the Viking Soaps threads, etc. It was the correct decision. Most of us here will still support you and don't want that Chinese crap.

I have 2 blackland razors and love them both..they're my "weekly" drivers...if I value something enough, I'll pay for quality over junk. don't think we don't support you, Blackland Razors!

No one really cares about my opinion, I’m sure.

But if anything, this thread is a convincing argument to avoid the fake and buy from Blackland Razors. I know that after reading much of this, I will do my best to avoid purchasing anything from “that” company in the future. I think anyone who still chooses to buy fakes would do so anyway.

Hi All,

After a few days of discussions with the rest of the mod team, we decided to keep this thread open and visible.  We'd all be naive if we didn't think that there weren't copies/dupes of popular items in the shaving ecosystem.  In fact, there's tons of dupes out there: soap and aftershave scents, razors, brush handles, etc....

Rather than trying to avoid discussion of clones/copies/dupes, maybe a better approach for artisans is to tell people why it's better to buy THEIR product(s) than what some knockoff company is producing.

Because we're the ones who made the damn thing. I'm blown away that it requires any more explanation than that. Reward makers. Reward small businesses who create the products that this forum relies on to discuss. You've chosen instead to reward those who take the hard work from others, who take advantage of their country's currency manipulation in order to produce products at a price that we who actually took the risk cannot compete with, and who will never participate here in our community. So instead of you guys taking that stand, your solution is that we have to spend our time moderating posts here in case a knock-off is shared so we can hop in to plead our case. I'll be doing just that, but I have a feeling that won't be as well received as you're making it sound.

so did other companies, who have had their work(s) copied by artisans, too.  there's probably hundreds or thousands of duplicated soap scents and aftershaves on the market.  why is it ok for them to have their stuff copied/clone/duplicated? 

the point is, the forum would cease to exist if we took that type of approach on dupes and copies.

Comparing scents to physical products is a stretch. The protectability of scent profiles has long been debated. Chemical compositions can be protected, but a scent itself is not considered a protectable property. Scent arises from the interpretation of the chemical composition by the smeller/user and different smellers can intrepret scents differently. This means there is no clear way to objectively identify what a "scent" exactly is and, for the same reason, there is no objective measure to determine whether a scent has been copied. There is no such ambiguity in physical design.

Because we're the ones who made the damn thing. I'm blown away that it requires any more explanation than that. Reward makers. Reward small businesses who create the products that this forum relies on to discuss. You've chosen instead to reward those who take the hard work from others, who take advantage of their country's currency manipulation in order to produce products at a price that we who actually took the risk cannot compete with, and who will never participate here in our community. So instead of you guys taking that stand, your solution is that we have to spend our time moderating posts here in case a knock-off is shared so we can hop in to plead our case. I'll be doing just that, but I have a feeling that won't be as well received as you're making it sound.

so did other companies, who have had their work(s) copied by artisans, too.  there's probably hundreds or thousands of duplicated soap scents and aftershaves on the market.  why is it ok for them to have their stuff copied/clone/duplicated? 

the point is, the forum would cease to exist if we took that type of approach on dupes and copies.

Comparing scents to physical products is a stretch. The protectability of scent profiles has long been debated. Chemical compositions can be protected, but a scent itself is not considered a protectable property. Scent arises from the interpretation of the chemical composition by the smeller/user and different smellers can intrepret scents differently. This means there is no clear way to objectively identify what a "scent" exactly is and, for the same reason, there is no objective measure to determine whether a scent has been copied. There is no such ambiguity in physical design.

Is a current razor not a copy of a previous razor with slight design iterations?

Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

so did other companies, who have had their work(s) copied by artisans, too.  there's probably hundreds or thousands of duplicated soap scents and aftershaves on the market.  why is it ok for them to have their stuff copied/clone/duplicated? 

the point is, the forum would cease to exist if we took that type of approach on dupes and copies.

Comparing scents to physical products is a stretch. The protectability of scent profiles has long been debated. Chemical compositions can be protected, but a scent itself is not considered a protectable property. Scent arises from the interpretation of the chemical composition by the smeller/user and different smellers can intrepret scents differently. This means there is no clear way to objectively identify what a "scent" exactly is and, for the same reason, there is no objective measure to determine whether a scent has been copied. There is no such ambiguity in physical design.

Is a current razor not a copy of a previous razor with slight design iterations?

Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

Show me one other razor made at any point in time with a threaded post like the Vector or Sabre. This component allows for the compactness of both of those razor heads. The “slight iteration” allows for the massive iteration of making the slimmest and most compact versions of these razors possible. I’ll save you the trouble. There aren’t any. Also, please don’t minimize my work as nothing more than a slight iteration over a previous concept. There is nothing to base either the Sabre or Vector on except for the broad concept of a three piece razor. To get those designs right took an incredible amount of work, time, testing, and money and I’m not wrong to do what I can to protect that.

...That becomes a place I no longer wish to support and imagine all the other vendors getting ripped off feel similarly.

Respectfully that is a 2 edge sword. What you bring to DFS is beneficial and what DFS brings to you is beneficial and not available elsewhere. I understand your frustration as best I can looking in from outside but threatening doesn't seem a good approach to a forum that brings you value. JMHO I already said I wasn't interested in their copy and I'll sit this out now......

+1 ... I share this sentiment. Tone in a message is as important as the words themselves. Will a vendor decide to bail on DFS if DFS refuses to censor shaving-related content? Fine, wish you well as you depart. This forum does not exist for the enrichment of vendors. It is an online gathering place for a community to discuss shaving-related topics, whether or not such topics please a vendor. I don’t support counterfeits (I’ve never seen this new razor so no jumping to conclusions here). But I think a little competition breeds “innovation”. . .

...That becomes a place I no longer wish to support and imagine all the other vendors getting ripped off feel similarly.

Respectfully that is a 2 edge sword. What you bring to DFS is beneficial and what DFS brings to you is beneficial and not available elsewhere. I understand your frustration as best I can looking in from outside but threatening doesn't seem a good approach to a forum that brings you value. JMHO I already said I wasn't interested in their copy and I'll sit this out now......

+1  ... I share this sentiment.  Tone in a message is as important as the words themselves.  Will a vendor decide to bail on DFS if DFS refuses to censor shaving-related content?  Fine, wish you well as you depart. This forum does not exist for the enrichment of vendors. It is an online gathering place for a community to discuss shaving-related topics, whether or not such topics please a vendor.  I don’t support counterfeits (I’ve never seen this new razor so no jumping to conclusions here). But I think a little competition breeds “innovation”. . .

It’s a symbiotic relationship. We, the makers and brand owners, create the products that serve as the topics of discussion which allow a place like this to continue and we engage actively which helps the forum stay relevant. In return, we benefit from having a place where our goods can be discussed and where we can engage with customers which helps grow our brands. As far as leaving, we needn’t be so dramatic as you’re suggesting. I won’t be leaving DFS no matter what. It’s simply a matter of where we invest excess time and effort.  I currently spend a LOT of time and energy here. I check in several times a day and browse many threads to see if I can be of service. I invest easily an hour per day here on average and that’s time and effort that could be reallocated if I don’t feel it’s a worthy investment. Not a big dramatic deal, but this is my livelihood and I need to make decisions that benefit my business and I need to fight for that business.

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Because we're the ones who made the damn thing. I'm blown away that it requires any more explanation than that. Reward makers. Reward small businesses who create the products that this forum relies on to discuss. You've chosen instead to reward those who take the hard work from others, who take advantage of their country's currency manipulation in order to produce products at a price that we who actually took the risk cannot compete with, and who will never participate here in our community. So instead of you guys taking that stand, your solution is that we have to spend our time moderating posts here in case a knock-off is shared so we can hop in to plead our case. I'll be doing just that, but I have a feeling that won't be as well received as you're making it sound.

so did other companies, who have had their work(s) copied by artisans, too.  there's probably hundreds or thousands of duplicated soap scents and aftershaves on the market.  why is it ok for them to have their stuff copied/clone/duplicated? 

the point is, the forum would cease to exist if we took that type of approach on dupes and copies.

Comparing scents to physical products is a stretch. The protectability of scent profiles has long been debated. Chemical compositions can be protected, but a scent itself is not considered a protectable property. Scent arises from the interpretation of the chemical composition by the smeller/user and different smellers can intrepret scents differently. This means there is no clear way to objectively identify what a "scent" exactly is and, for the same reason, there is no objective measure to determine whether a scent has been copied. There is no such ambiguity in physical design.

you might be right from a legal perspective (I don't have any legitimate reason to spend time to dig much into this myself), but it sounds as if you're trying to minimize or downplay the amount of time, labor, money and work that a chemist/company puts into developing scents that people will love to wear because it's not in your particular space (razors)...everyone knows that Stirling's executive man (Rod's best seller, from what I recall him saying, mind you) is a creed aventus dupe....and just about every artisan out there has an aventus dupe in their lineup. I'm not mad that they do, but that's a fact that this niche is ripe with copies and dupes.

we don't even need to get into razor handle or brush handles, the same can be said for both....

Comparing scents to physical products is a stretch. The protectability of scent profiles has long been debated. Chemical compositions can be protected, but a scent itself is not considered a protectable property. Scent arises from the interpretation of the chemical composition by the smeller/user and different smellers can intrepret scents differently. This means there is no clear way to objectively identify what a "scent" exactly is and, for the same reason, there is no objective measure to determine whether a scent has been copied. There is no such ambiguity in physical design.

Is a current razor not a copy of a previous razor with slight design iterations?

Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

Show me one other razor made at any point in time with a threaded post like the Vector or Sabre. This component allows for the compactness of both of those razor heads. The “slight iteration” allows for the massive iteration of making the slimmest and most compact versions of these razors possible. I’ll save you the trouble. There aren’t any. Also, please don’t minimize my work as nothing more than a slight iteration over a previous concept. There is nothing to base either the Sabre or Vector on except for the broad concept of a three piece razor. To get those designs right took an incredible amount of work, time, testing, and money and I’m not wrong to do what I can to protect that.

if I didn't value your work, then why would I trade my dollars for your products?

this thread is on just about every single popular shaving forum out there around the entire world - American, English, Spanish, Australian, Italian, etc.. as well as on youtube...by us hiding it, it won't remove that fact.

did you contact yaqi yet? they're the ones copying your design, not us!