What's your take on the new GEM-type SE razors?

I love using SE razors - the old ones with the GEM blades. Apart from straight razors, the SE razors are just the most comfortable razors for me to use. I use a lot of them and like them all - lather catchers, all the micromatics, Damaskeene, you name it.

I've used every one of those shown below. The pic is not mine but is from https://www.flickr.com/photos/matthew_wild/8595643384.


Still, I've been curious about the newer GEM-type razors that have slowly become available from modern manufacturers. I've been looking for an evaluation of the shave from them, in comparison to the vintage GEM/Star razors. I know a lot of people must have tried one or more of the newer SE razors.

What's your take on them - especially with regards to the SHAVE, and especially when compared to the older SE razors.

I don't really care about the material of manufacture. Yes, SS may last longer, but these older GEM's have lasted 100 years so far, so their build quality works for me. It's the shave that I care about. Do these new razors offer anything substantially different from the older ones? I know Blackland offers two levels of aggression, for example.



It's just that these razors are expensive (as opposed to the older ones) and I want to know that they offer something significantly different before shelling out money for them. Trying them out may be the only way to figure it out, but I thought I'd ask you guys on here for your opinion.

I don't believe in them. No better than the MMOC, money better spent elsewhere.

This conversation comes up a lot with razors and SEs are no different in this regard than DEs. You can get a phenomenal shave with both vintage and modern. When you buy a modern machined stainless razor you’re buying better materials, finer production techniques, a more exclusive experience, and a product that transcends its use as a tool and becomes a blend of artwork and practicality. Many people will argue that modern razors shave a bit better, but the improvement in performance will never scale directly with the price. A Sabre costs ~10 times as much as a budget vintage GEM. I’ll tell you right now that it doesn’t perform ten times better. The reasons for buying a new high end razor extend beyond pure shaving so if you value those intangibles then the value is there. If you’re just looking for a shaving tool, buy ten vintage razors instead.


P.s., we have a 30-day return policy if you want to try one.

This conversation comes up a lot with razors and SEs are no different in this regard than DEs. You can get a phenomenal shave with both vintage and modern. When you buy a modern machined stainless razor you’re buying better materials, finer production techniques, a more exclusive experience, and a product that transcends its use as a tool and becomes a blend of artwork and practicality. Many people will argue that modern razors shave a bit better, but the improvement in performance will never scale directly with the price. A Sabre costs ~10 times as much as a budget vintage GEM. I’ll tell you right now that it doesn’t perform ten times better. The reasons for buying a new high end razor extend beyond pure shaving so if you value those intangibles then the value is there. If you’re just looking for a shaving tool, buy ten vintage razors instead.


P.s., we have a 30-day return policy if you want to try one.

I am totally in agreement with Shane as that was my experience. I was extremely familiar with Gem type razors including the wedge blade types (yes I honed my own blades) and shaving with the best of the vintage Gems. When the Sabre was released, I jumped on it because it was a different design, well machined, and excellent materials. The shave was very good, but for me it really came down to was it 10 times better? I decided at that time that I really was looking for a great shave and the others in my collection provided that. I eventually took up Blackland's 30 day return policy, but gained a lot of respect for the razors they make and the integrity of their company in the process.

My recommendation to you is to try one out (and the Sabre would be an excellent one), because if you are asking the question, only your own experience can answer that.

Blackland Razors - Thanks for the reply. I was not aware of your return policy, and I may just take you up on that since as I mentioned and as gvw755 pointed out - the only way to truly find out if the new production razors would work for me would be to try them. The bad (and good) thing is that there are several other choices out there now as well.

Of the 2 that I've tried, no. I'd much rather use a vintage GEM. The Starling was terrible and the Sabre Lvl 1 was just too mild/inefficient. I wouldn't mind trying the Sabre Lvl 2 because the fit/finish and feel in the hand of Blackland Razors is outstanding.

Of the 2 that I've tried, no. I'd much rather use a vintage GEM. The Starling was terrible and the Sabre Lvl 1 was just too mild/inefficient. I wouldn't mind trying the Sabre Lvl 2 because the fit/finish and feel in the hand of Blackland Razors is outstanding.

Same experience. The Starling was disappointing, matching the MMOC in no aspects, while Tom White's TNNSER came closer but I still prefer the handling of the MMOC.

Of the 2 that I've tried, no. I'd much rather use a vintage GEM. The Starling was terrible and the Sabre Lvl 1 was just too mild/inefficient. I wouldn't mind trying the Sabre Lvl 2 because the fit/finish and feel in the hand of Blackland Razors is outstanding.

I have a Sabre with both the L1 and L2 plates.  IMO it is an absolutely top-shelf product, and I use it all the time.  (I am 41 shaves in, 25 with the L1 plate and 16 with the L2.)  These are my loosely organized thoughts about the Sabre and of the some related options. ...

• The fit and finish on my Sabre are superb, and I would expect any Blackland razor to be impeccably made.  A used razor off the bay may or may not be in first-rate condition.  For example, I have excellent examples of a Clog-Pruf and a G-Bar.  THB they shave as well as my Sabre, but I shopped carefully, paid a bit more than some probably do, and got a little lucky.  I would not worry for a second about the quality of a Blackland product (or about Shane's readiness to stand behind what he sells).  
  
• I like the weight of the Sabre compared to the vintage razors and the PAA Starling.  However, people acclimate themselves to lightweight razors, as evidenced by all the folks shaving with vintage GEMS, Schicks, and Gillettes.  Nevertheless, I myself like the heavier weight.
  
• The Sabre is not comfortable in my hand with the supplied handle but to me, that is a minor issue - easily and inexpensively fixed.  Just swap out the handle.
  
• There is an easily noticeable contrast between the L1 and L2 plates.  FWIW wyze0ne, based on your remarks, my guess is that you would be happy with the L2.
  
• I have a better experience with the Starling (V2) than wyze0ne, and I would not hesitate to buy a Starling if budget is an issue and if you can find one.  However, I just checked, and Starlings are currently sold out, so you would need a used one (a V2 hopefully).  There also is the vintage route for anyone who stumbles across this thread and needs a lower cost option.  Fine vintage GEM razors are easy to come by, even if it takes a couple of tries to get the one that is just right for you.
  
• At the other end of the budget scale ...  I decided to go with the Polished Sabre over the Machined and FWIW, that was the best "splurge" I can offhand remember.  Totally unnecessary, but very satisfying to me.  I sometimes post photos of the day's rig over in the SOTD threads, and I quickly noticed that a polished Sabre looks really good.  If you use and photograph it with the supplied handle and stand, or just set it down in your den that way, it looks even better.
  

   

Good luck whichever way you go yohannrjm (and other shoppers).  IMO if you are shopping GEM razors, you are already ahead of the game.


EDIT:  I did not see jmudrick's remarks before posting, or I would have acknowledged them too.

Of the 2 that I've tried, no. I'd much rather use a vintage GEM. The Starling was terrible and the Sabre Lvl 1 was just too mild/inefficient. I wouldn't mind trying the Sabre Lvl 2 because the fit/finish and feel in the hand of Blackland Razors is outstanding.

I have a Sabre with both the L1 and L2 plates.  IMO it is an absolutely top-shelf product, and I use it all the time.  (I am 41 shaves in, 25 with the L1 plate and 16 with the L2.)  These are my loosely organized thoughts about the Sabre and of the some related options. ...

• The fit and finish on my Sabre are superb, and I would expect any Blackland razor to be impeccably made.  A used razor off the bay may or may not be in first-rate condition.  For example, I have excellent examples of a Clog-Pruf and a G-Bar.  THB they shave as well as my Sabre, but I shopped carefully, paid a bit more than some probably do, and got a little lucky.  I would not worry for a second about the quality of a Blackland product (or about Shane's readiness to stand behind what he sells).  
  
• I like the weight of the Sabre compared to the vintage razors and the PAA Starling.  However, people acclimate themselves to lightweight razors, as evidenced by all the folks shaving with vintage GEMS, Schicks, and Gillettes.  Nevertheless, I myself like the heavier weight.
  
• The Sabre is not comfortable in my hand with the supplied handle but to me, that is a minor issue - easily and inexpensively fixed.  Just swap out the handle.
  
• There is an easily noticeable contrast between the L1 and L2 plates.  FWIW wyze0ne, based on your remarks, my guess is that you would be happy with the L2.
  
• I have a better experience with the Starling (V2) than wyze0ne, and I would not hesitate to buy a Starling if budget is an issue and if you can find one.  However, I just checked, and Starlings are currently sold out, so you would need a used one (a V2 hopefully).  There also is the vintage route for anyone who stumbles across this thread and needs a lower cost option.  Fine vintage GEM razors are easy to come by, even if it takes a couple of tries to get the one that is just right for you.
  
• At the other end of the budget scale ...  I decided to go with the Polished Sabre over the Machined and FWIW, that was the best "splurge" I can offhand remember.  Totally unnecessary, but very satisfying to me.  I sometimes post photos of the day's rig over in the SOTD threads, and I quickly noticed that a polished Sabre looks really good.  If you use and photograph it with the supplied handle and stand, or just set it down in your den that way, it looks even better.
  

   

Good luck whichever way you go yohannrjm (and other shoppers).  IMO if you are shopping GEM razors, you are already ahead of the game.


EDIT:  I did not see jmudrick's remarks before posting, or I would have acknowledged them too.

One can buy any of the Micromatics, cased, in near mint condition for the price of a Starling bottom plate. Please help me understand why that's an option even worth considering in your mind??

Of the 2 that I've tried, no. I'd much rather use a vintage GEM. The Starling was terrible and the Sabre Lvl 1 was just too mild/inefficient. I wouldn't mind trying the Sabre Lvl 2 because the fit/finish and feel in the hand of Blackland Razors is outstanding.

I have a Sabre with both the L1 and L2 plates.  IMO it is an absolutely top-shelf product, and I use it all the time.  (I am 41 shaves in, 25 with the L1 plate and 16 with the L2.)  These are my loosely organized thoughts about the Sabre and of the some related options. ...

• The fit and finish on my Sabre are superb, and I would expect any Blackland razor to be impeccably made.  A used razor off the bay may or may not be in first-rate condition.  For example, I have excellent examples of a Clog-Pruf and a G-Bar.  THB they shave as well as my Sabre, but I shopped carefully, paid a bit more than some probably do, and got a little lucky.  I would not worry for a second about the quality of a Blackland product (or about Shane's readiness to stand behind what he sells).  
  
• I like the weight of the Sabre compared to the vintage razors and the PAA Starling.  However, people acclimate themselves to lightweight razors, as evidenced by all the folks shaving with vintage GEMS, Schicks, and Gillettes.  Nevertheless, I myself like the heavier weight.
  
• The Sabre is not comfortable in my hand with the supplied handle but to me, that is a minor issue - easily and inexpensively fixed.  Just swap out the handle.
  
• There is an easily noticeable contrast between the L1 and L2 plates.  FWIW wyze0ne, based on your remarks, my guess is that you would be happy with the L2.
  
• I have a better experience with the Starling (V2) than wyze0ne, and I would not hesitate to buy a Starling if budget is an issue and if you can find one.  However, I just checked, and Starlings are currently sold out, so you would need a used one (a V2 hopefully).  There also is the vintage route for anyone who stumbles across this thread and needs a lower cost option.  Fine vintage GEM razors are easy to come by, even if it takes a couple of tries to get the one that is just right for you.
  
• At the other end of the budget scale ...  I decided to go with the Polished Sabre over the Machined and FWIW, that was the best "splurge" I can offhand remember.  Totally unnecessary, but very satisfying to me.  I sometimes post photos of the day's rig over in the SOTD threads, and I quickly noticed that a polished Sabre looks really good.  If you use and photograph it with the supplied handle and stand, or just set it down in your den that way, it looks even better.
  

   

Good luck whichever way you go yohannrjm (and other shoppers).  IMO if you are shopping GEM razors, you are already ahead of the game.


EDIT:  I did not see jmudrick's remarks before posting, or I would have acknowledged them too.

One can buy any of the Micromatics, cased, in near mint condition for the price of a Starling bottom plate. Please help me understand why that's an option even worth considering in your mind??

Well, since you asked so nicely, I will do what I can.

In my mind, the Starling is an option worth considering because it shaves as fine for me.  I especially like that the Starling grip is easier for me than some MMs (not all MMs).  I don't notice the grip difference that much with all soaps, but these days I have zeroed in on a few brands of incredibly slick soaps.  What happens is that as the soap gets slicker, my baseline grip pressure goes up, and as my baseline pressure goes up, my fingers start cramping up in mid-shave.  That obviously sucks.  That's why I switch out the handle on the Sabre.  Likewise, I really enjoyed (past tense) my OneBlade Genesis at the times I wanted a quick and easy shave, but I haven't used the Genesis for quite a while because of the grip.  I also find it worky to grip my Clog-pruf.  Believe me, I continue to strive for minimal pressure with good control, but at the end of the day I have to go with what works for me, just like everyone else.

Now all that aside, I gather from the tone of your question that you (and wyze0ne ) don't think the Starling can stand up to a near-mint MM.  I get that, and FYI I could care less if people prefer MMs or dislike the Starling.  But my experience is different.  If that was not obvious before, it should be by now.