What is the definition of an Artisan?

I'm sorry but a Chipotle employee is NOT an artisan by any stretch. I don't care what your 200 year old book definition says...

He is no different than a common sign painter, a simple artisan working with their hands.

Now if the food was mass produced with machines, and no humans touching it on the assembly line, that that would not be made by an artisan.

But if a human being is doing simple tasks, then it appears they are "simple artisans".

Too late for this?

[Image: istock_can-of-worms.jpg]

Folks, I am in no way suggesting that there is anything wrong with the thread but don't you think that maybe we have taken it so far that we may be looking for explanations of minutia that most would never even think about or consider?

By all means, continue if it is a worthwhile conversation for you, as it was for me in the beginning, but am I the only one whose eyes are beginning to glaze over?

This is the Martin de Candre soap factory and this video is from them, and the owner is speaking. It appears some of this is made by machines and some, like packaging is done by hand.

So is this artisan? Some of this is automated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTEOhcR7tFU

Folks, I am in no way suggesting that there is anything wrong with the thread but don't you think that maybe we have taken it so far that we may be looking for explanations of minutia that most would never even think about or consider?

By all means, continue if it is a worthwhile conversation for you, as it was for me in the beginning, but am I the only one whose eyes are beginning to glaze over?

Youre not the only one...

I have a saying that perfectly rescribes what is starting to hapoen here...we are picking fly crap out of pepper.

Fast food is not artisanal. Anything production-line made is thw antithesis of artisanal, regardless of how many individual people use their hands to make it.

Flopping frozen patties on a grill does not an artisan make. Im sorry it just doesnt work like that...

Create something from scratch. Start there.

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Flopping frozen patties on a grill does not an artisan make. Im sorry it just doesnt work like that...

I agree. That is an unskilled worker. Artisans need to be "skilled", but artisan food is all over the place and to think cooks aren't artisans is off base. For example,

http://www.thekitchn.com/what-does-artis...you-174439

""Artisanal" is the Paris Hilton of food words – it went from obscurity to ubiquity in no time ... The first time I remember hearing it used frequently was in 2001, ... I liked the word because of its etymological roots in skilled craft – akin to "art" but with that special connotation of the practical arts, such as carpentry, iron-working,  and making food. In recent years "artisanal" has become a synonym for small, smaller, smallest"

"Sadly the word "artisan" has been taken from its original meaning — a craftsman of skill, one who manufactures functional and decorated tangible goods – and now can be used to qualify something as "quality."

And this is true of cooks or shaving cream makers. The word has been perverted into something it was never intended to be. Artisanal was never meant to mean "quality" and marketing has about destroyed its original meaning.

So why does any of this matter, bringing this full circle to the beginning? I asked because I'm trying to figure out different soaps/creams and who makes what. I learned a GREAT deal from this thread.

An artist creates something new. It can be derived from another source, just as a Roman Artist painted a bowl of fruit and so did a modern Artist, they are still artists despite using the same props or inspiration.

An artisan is a skilled craftsman in a trade, using their hands, but does not create something new

A simple artisan does simple trade crafts

A mechanic is a skilled artisan in the mechanical arts.

Arts can be many things from culinary arts to fine arts.

Now relating this to this industry ....

GFT, T&H, DR Harris, etc, if they outsource their creams to Creighton, are not artisanal soap makers.
If Creighton uses a bunch of machines to produce cream, neither are they
However, the original creators of the scents of these creams are artists

MdC. I am not sure, From their own video, it looks half hand made and half machine made, some kind of hybrid. The day LPL outsources Le Pere Lucien production, then this artist will become a bookkeeper, just like those at GFT, etc.

And I know what artisan does NOT mean.

The word does NOT, necessarily, mean quality. Something can be made by hand and be garbage. If I made some furniture and tried to be a carpenter, rest assured, it would be garbage furniture although a simple artisan.

The word does NOT mean some guy in his basement slaving away stirring pots by hand to make soaps. Production can be massive. It depends upon how many "artisans" are working at it. If a company is making jewelry, and the gold charms are molded and punched out by a machine, that is NOT artisan. However, if the company produces many gold charms, made by hand, with 100 artisans, they are STILL artisans. In other words, production capacity is not related to the world Artisan.

I have no idea whose factory this is but it is using machines and the workers cannot be artisans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1rsfZ_WGm4

OTH, this is Muhle, and this workers are artisans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATlXV37gsTc

Flopping frozen patties on a grill does not an artisan make. Im sorry it just doesnt work like that...

I agree. That is an unskilled worker. Artisans need to be "skilled", but artisan food is all over the place and to think cooks aren't artisans is off base. For example,

http://www.thekitchn.com/what-does-artis...you-174439

""Artisanal" is the Paris Hilton of food words – it went from obscurity to ubiquity in no time ... The first time I remember hearing it used frequently was in 2001, ... I liked the word because of its etymological roots in skilled craft – akin to "art" but with that special connotation of the practical arts, such as carpentry, iron-working,  and making food. In recent years "artisanal" has become a synonym for small, smaller, smallest"

"Sadly the word "artisan" has been taken from its original meaning — a craftsman of skill, one who manufactures functional and decorated tangible goods – and now can be used to qualify something as "quality."

And this is true of cooks or shaving cream makers. The word has been perverted into something it was never intended to be. Artisanal was never meant to mean "quality" and marketing has about destroyed its original meaning.

So why does any of this matter, bringing this full circle to the beginning? I asked because I'm trying to figure out different soaps/creams and who makes what. I learned a GREAT deal from this thread.

100% in agreement...

So now that I've come full circle and maybe sorted this out in my mind through all the discussion, one might ask "what's the point".

The point is simple. Within this industry I see many times questions like "Name your top 5 Artisan Soaps" or mere references to soaps/creams and if they are "artisanal", some how that infers sainthood onto them.

Wrong. As I go through available consumable goods, I wonder how many of the are "truly" artisanal and how many are machine made and if so, why would anyone care?

So now that I've come full circle and maybe sorted this out in my mind through all the discussion, one might ask "what's the point".

The point is simple. Within this industry I see many times questions like "Name your top 5 Artisan Soaps" or mere references to soaps/creams and if they are "artisanal", some how that infers sainthood onto them.

Wrong. As I go through available consumable goods, I wonder how many of the are "truly" artisanal and how many are machine made and if so, why would anyone care?

I find that trying to define what constitutes an artisan and then determine who is and isn't an 'artisan' by those standards to largely be a waste of time. with wet shaving in general, everything seemingly has a YMMV disclaimer after a statement on this or that product. I think this would hold true for the definition of an artisan as well.

for me, if something works well, I'll use it whether it's made by a shop with 300 employees or 1. If it doesn't work for me either way, I'll move on from it. All that said though, I do tend to think that the smaller shops are more likely to listen and adjust their products based on user feedback than a larger shop.

To save confusion we should refer to Artisan's as Soap Makers because that's all they are. No great skill involved