What is the definition of an Artisan?

To me, an artisan is someone who makes soap in flip flops while drinking a cold Shiner and watching baseball, which is coincidentally how I plan to spend the evening. Not saying that makes me an artisan -  just pointing out the similarity of the situations.

Rod, please let me know if you need a hand- that's my kind of evening right there. Soap would be a bonus!

I'd love some help! I'll actually be down in Austin/Georgetown area in about 3 weeks. Thinking about taking in an Express game if they are at home when we're there.

Michelle is an artisan soap maker. IMHumbleO.  [/i][/b]

I guess this is where we differ.

I would consider Mystic and Stirling and B&M and the others who create their own formulas and their own "new" scent formulations soap "artists", and others who copy a recipe and do nothing original, but are still skilled craftspersons - artisans. And so would be the soap makers in a GFT factory. They are artisans. It has NOTHING to do with somebody working out of their basement like "back in the day". Wiki has good pictures of artisans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artisan ranging from potters to tanners to rope makers to furriers. They can all be artisans - but that does not make them artists.

I think this is a good distinction. The problem with the term "artisan" as it relates to soap making is that many consumers tend to think that because those soap makers are considered to be an "artisan," they gain immediate credibility as masters of their craft and their product is better than established brands that create soap in factories instead of a garage.

I also agree that anyone good at making soap, be it in a factory or elsewhere, is an artisan with regard to making soap. Razorock regularly advertises their soaps as being made by an artisan in Italy. I do not doubt this claim, but I am sure that the soap is being made in a factory alongside other soaps on a fairly large scale, which draws me back to my Rolex analogy, where I stated that master craftsmen using techniques handed down over generations to create a product are artisans themselves, and far superior to some working for small scale operations.

Herein lies the problem, though. If all soap makers are artisans, then what is the point of using the designation in the first place? While I do not agree with Hector's watch analogy, his comparison rings very true for the way the vast majority of shaving consumers view artisan soap makers. Small scale producers with no corporate connections.

Michelle is an artisan soap maker. IMHumbleO.  [/i][/b]

I guess this is where we differ.

I would consider Mystic and Stirling and B&M and the others who create their own formulas and their own "new" scent formulations soap "artists", and others who copy a recipe and do nothing original, but are still skilled craftspersons - artisans. And so would be the soap makers in a GFT factory. They are artisans. It has NOTHING to do with somebody working out of their basement like "back in the day". Wiki has good pictures of artisans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artisan ranging from potters to tanners to rope makers to furriers. They can all be artisans - but that does not make them artists.

I think this is a good distinction. The problem with the term "artisan" as it relates to soap making is that many consumers tend to think that because those maker is considered to be an "artisan" soap maker, they gain immediate credibility as masters of their craft and their product is better than established brands that create soap in factories instead of a garage.

I also agree that anyone good at making soap, be it in a factory or elsewhere, is an artisan with regard to making soap. Razorock regularly advertises their soaps as being made by an artisan in Italy. I do not doubt this claim, but I am sure that the soap is being made in a factory alongside other soaps on a fairly large scale, which draws me back to my Rolex analogy, where I stated that master craftsmen using techniques handed down over generations to create a product are artisans themselves, and far superior to some working for small scale operations.

Herein lies the problem, though. If all soap makers are artisans, then what is the point of using the designation in the first place? While I do not agree with Hector's watch analogy, his comparison rings very true for the way the vast majority of shaving consumers view artisan soap makers. Small scale producers with no corporate connections.

I've noticed the immediate credibility that you mention. In most cases, it doesn't matter to me where and how a soap is made (barring extremes) as long as it performs flawlessly. If a small artisan can make a product that performs to that standard, excellent! But if performance is equal, I'd equally enjoy a factory made brand.

grim made an interesting point on the topic of originality by referencing Mystic Water and B&M. Innovation and advancement is especially important to me.

I would tend to agree with NeoXerxes in that I am empirical by nature. Regardless if 99% of the population thinks it great, it is labeled Artisan, etc. the only person that matters is me.

No offense to anyone else of course. Being that there are so many variables, I only know or care if a product meets my expectation by direct use.

I do take advantage of some consensus building through my personal network of "trusted advisors" to determine whether I will give a product a first shot or not but it has little to do with any of the labeling, branding, GTM, etc. and all to do in this case with the soap puck itself.

Having said that, I much prefer supporting smaller organizations with quality products, passionate about their wares all things being equal. Artisans, so to speak

There may have been a time when words meant something precise.

Words should ALWAYS be precise. If you tell someone to meet you in a few minutes and they show up in a few hours, you will not be very happy when they say "a few minutes, a few hours - whats the difference?"

When its a life and death situations,  you better use the precise words, or you are dead.

I think this is a good distinction. The problem with the term "artisan" as it relates to soap making is that many consumers tend to think that because those soap makers are considered to be an "artisan," they gain immediate credibility as masters of their craft and their product is better than established brands that create soap in factories instead of a garage.  ...Herein lies the problem, though. If all soap makers are artisans, then what is the point of using the designation in the first place?  

Very true - and that goes full circle and is why I like Bufflehead's "Shartisan" word.

What is the point of calling them artisan?  Marketing - pure and simple. Whether its artisan bread, artisan pizza, artisan beer, artisan pottery, etc, its all a means for those marketing products to present an image, a way to sell  you something.  

Give me your money. I am an artisan. You KNOW its going to be good

OK, you are an artisan. So isn't the guy fixing shoes, the guy making pizza, the guy painting signs, and every other practitioner who is skilled in the practical application (that is, the "vulgar" or common practice) of some trade. I got no issue with that at all. So isn't the mechanic who fixes your car but they don't design cars.

OTH, some of the soap makers here are artists, and thats great (who are also skilled at the practice making them artisans as well). If I could create something from nothing, I would want to be known as an artist and elevated in the ranking, not as an artisan who simply is a "worker" (per the book definition).

For @"Uzi" the usage in colloquial language might be different. Words do change with usage over time. Some are just slang and might not hold up over time but some have truly changed. The word "fantastic" is one http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/26...47343.html  "Aweful", derived from "Awe" is another.

In this case, I don't think its so much the concept of the definition changing because I don't think anyone would argue with Artisans being "skillful" in the application of their art. Rather, its the concept that "Artisans" produce better products than say factory produced products - and that's just nonsense.

I've seen "artisan" products that were - let's call them inferior" and factory produced products that were "fantastic" (which is the evolved definition).

Are SMN, MdC, CF, Klar, C&S, etc made in factories or by some little guy making small batches in their basement? I'm going to guess they are made in large quantities in some kind of factories by "artisans" who are skilled in soap making but who are not "artists" (except for those who originate the recipes).

Herein lies the problem, though. If all soap makers are artisans, then what is the point of using the designation in the first place? While I do not agree with Hector's watch analogy, his comparison rings very true for the way the vast majority of shaving consumers view artisan soap makers. Small scale producers with no corporate connections.

All soapmakers ARE artisans, by definition, because all soapmakers are following established processes to create a product with their own skills.

The problem is not a matter of definition, it is a matter of marketing. Society has been programmed to view anything labled as "artisanal" or "artisan-made" as being of a higher quality. The fact is, the word has nothing to do with quality. It describes a process, or a person following a process.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of consumers in society are easily manipulated by relatively simple programming and marketing. Show a lot of flashy images that give the impression of rich, high-priced, high-quality goods, call it artisanal, jack up the price tag, and folks eat it up. If this wasn't true, Budweiser would NEVER successfully market an artisan beer, and McDonald's would NEVER successfully market and artisan sandwich, because we know, logically, that it is crap. It is going to be garbage. It doesn't even fit the actual definition of "artisanal", because there isn't a skilled worker labouring with care to provide a product. It's assemblyline nonsense of the absolute lowest quality, but we have to try it...

It sells, because people have been programmed to perceive anything "artisan made" or "hand-made" or "home made" as higher quality. This is a completely false and misleading interpretation of these phrases, but this is what marketing does...manipulate us.

I yearn for the days when definitions were reliable, and a person's opinion of what they thought a word meant did not count for more than the word actually means. I'm all for the evolution of language, but semantics are extremely important to comprehensive language interpretation. Imagine cultural anthropologists 500 years from now trying to decipher some of the nonsense language usage being haphazardly flung about these days...I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that...

Well, yea...I'm quite certain that this sort of marketing would fail if people were not easily manipulated. That is, afterall, the entirety of my statement...

Unless you think McDonald's really has a true artisan chicken griller in the back of all their restaurants just waiting for someone to order that sandwich...

I hear ya BadDad

It was just funny to see McDonald's artisan sandwich and DQ and a few others making them

True. These things to do work though, sadly. When the inevitable apocalypse arrives and humanity is forced to subsist off of Soylent Green, you can bet that someone will come along with an "artisanal" version lol.

The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”
― Edward L. Bernays, Propaganda

The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”
― Edward L. Bernays, Propaganda

A fellow Bernays reader! I love this quote.