Unethical?

Don't like the price? Don't buy it. Don't like his selling style, don't buy from that sellers. That is the choice of the buyer.

This is the crux of the matter right here. If somebody is willing (or didn't do their due diligence on research) to buy an item at an exorbitant mark up, then let 'em. Why do you really care?

I'll weigh on this (as if we needed another opinion). While technically I must agree with those that it's a free market and someone who buys an item can sell it for whatever someone else is willing to pay, I believe there's a question of spirit. For those of us who've interacted with Ken, it's clear that he is not in business to make money. This is a passion project for him. This flipper issue was discussed, I think on other forums and Ken said he didn't like people arbitraging his brushes. I think this is not just because Ken is a stand up guy. I think it's because Ken knows that he produces less product than is currently demanded, and he is sensitive to the fact that many who would use and cherish his brushes have been frustrated with their inability to get one. Add that some people are buying to simply flip and profit from it just exacerbates the problem. So again while technically it's a free market, the context is what makes it less than gentlemanly IMHO.

I'll weigh on this (as if we needed another opinion).  While technically I must agree with those that it's a free market and someone who buys an item can sell it for whatever someone else is willing to pay, I believe there's a question of spirit.  For those of us who've interacted with Ken, it's clear that he is not in business to make money.  This is a passion project for him.  This flipper issue was discussed, I think on other forums and Ken said he didn't like people arbitraging his brushes.   I think this is not just because Ken is a stand up guy.  I think it's because Ken knows that he produces less product than is currently demanded, and he is sensitive to the fact that many who would use and cherish his brushes have been frustrated with their inability to get one.  Add that some people are buying to simply flip and profit from it just exacerbates the problem.  So again while technically it's a free market, the context is what makes it less than gentlemanly IMHO.

Ken has to also realize though that he's contributing to the huge asking prices by supplying less brushes than there is demand. if he can't satisfy those higher demands by increasing supply, then this will continue to happen. I'm not saying it's right or he should be obligated to produce more - or any brushes - but that's just reality.

something else that annoys me is when people complain about people making money on items, yet are 100% on board with buying items when they're selling for less than they're worth. how does that even work?

Wow.  OK, I'll grant you that the OP's choice of the word "unethical" may not have been the best word to describe the behaviour he'd witnessed on ebay.  I'll also grant you that BadDad isn't wrong , however, I still say that IMO dude is a scalper and he's a D-bag.  I believe I have the Constitutionally protected right to hold that opinion.  Sure, he's a capitalist and not doing anything illegal (that we're aware of) but I still don't think I'd be interested in sitting down with him over a couple of beers to watch some basketball.  There are lots of behaviours that fall short of breaking laws that are still generally frowned upon.

I don't really like to say "it is generally frowned on" unless it really and truly is, generally speaking, frowned on, and as I pointed out earlier, there is no other hobby in which you find so many people expecting something for nothing to the point where many are willing to be accusatory towards an entity that is doing nothing more than acting upon a hot market with speed and good business sense.

Even within the hobby of wet shaving itself, it is not "generally frowned upon". It is discouraged in some forums, not out of some benevolence, rather out of a sense of security for the profits those forums generate. Because of this, there are individuals that think it is, or at least should be, an unwritten rule out of some sense of community or something.

It happens all over ebay, facebook, reddit, etsy, craigslist, and instagram. It happens because it is how markets operate and how businesses profit.

I get it. I genuinely like a lot of the members here, and I would be very angry to see them taken advantage of, and I include you in that statement, Marko. There are many participants on this forum that I would happily give something to if I thought it would help. I agree with the sentiment that this hobby should be full of "gentlemen" that value friendship over profit and character over income. I live that agreement in the way I conduct myself here and the people I choose to interact with and in what ways. That interaction is what generates a sense of community, and in these pseudo-family circles, I'm pretty sure there is far more good natured donations and PIFs than over-priced snake oil salesmen. But that is by choice, not force, and that is why it is special, and something to be protected.

You, I, and anyone else is welcome to have any opinion of the behavior we want. Accusations of unethical behavior are what bothers me. It is not unethical. It is a perfectly legitimate, and very intelligent, business move. Dude is making 400% profit, and he will get it, because someone will buy it.

I'll weigh on this (as if we needed another opinion).  While technically I must agree with those that it's a free market and someone who buys an item can sell it for whatever someone else is willing to pay, I believe there's a question of spirit.  For those of us who've interacted with Ken, it's clear that he is not in business to make money.  This is a passion project for him.  This flipper issue was discussed, I think on other forums and Ken said he didn't like people arbitraging his brushes.   I think this is not just because Ken is a stand up guy.  I think it's because Ken knows that he produces less product than is currently demanded, and he is sensitive to the fact that many who would use and cherish his brushes have been frustrated with their inability to get one.  Add that some people are buying to simply flip and profit from it just exacerbates the problem.  So again while technically it's a free market, the context is what makes it less than gentlemanly IMHO.

I mean this with respect to the maker and to you, so please don't read into this post. It is not meant to be antagonistic or insulting, but...

It doesn't matter if "Ken"(I presume he makes Paladin brushes) likes it or not. If it bothers him enough, he can cease producing brushes and make them only specifically for people within his close circle of friends. That's the only choice he has, other than stepping up production or reducing quality to lower market value. My guess is that is even more distasteful than seeing his brushes command skyrocketed prices.

He is a businessman. If he was only doing it out of passion for the hobby, he wouldn't be investing money in websites, business licenses, and all of the tax hoopla associated with a business versus a hobby.

The context is that he is running a business, and he won;t do anything to stop it because the only things he could do would kill his own profits. He has no choice but to change his business model, or deal with the fact that his product commands a ton of resale value in the current market. He can either end it, capture it, or deal with it.

I don't disagree with you in that it can be frustrating and if it is a product you happen to want, it probably really sucks. I'm just saying...that doesn't make it "unethical".

He can also deny direct sale to scalpers, which I believe he intends to do.


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In a mostly free market economy the easiest way to lower prices is to meet demand. ANY other method is folly. The energy level required to weed out "scalpers" Is energy lost on manufacturing. Yes, some of the masses will be appeased by the effort, but it will not resolve the problem.

Put a wolfman or Paladin in every wanting hand, and the price WILL go down.

Over night, the price of the Babysmooths went from $120 to $40, when Jo spun up production again. Playing out in black and white as we speak.

I do enjoy these threads and hearing the varying points of view and, as I said in my initial post, I do believe there is value in pointing out what we may perceive as sharp practice and discussing the merits of such conduct.  The fact that we're all respectful speaks to the membership and DFS generally and there is no doubt in my mind that BadDad represents the best of what communities like this one have to offer.  There are numerous examples of patience, kindness and generosity on DFS that I've either witnessed or experienced directly and, being an idealist I wish everybody was like that.  But, reality is often a different story and I can only control my own conduct.  How I behave and how I treat others is a personal choice that I am able to make - how others behave and how they treat me is completely out of my control but I do control my reaction to their behaviour and I try to be chill about it(although I am only human and sometimes I slip).  So I just won't support people that I think are taking advantage or I won't get involved in an auction that runs the price out of the range of reasonableness .  (The auction process is interesting because the vendor really doesn't control the selling price if he's put no reserve on it and the market bids it out of sight.  Thats the market's behaviour not the vendor's.) I'm ok with the fact that I'll never have a Paladin brush or some other piece of so called "unobtainium" - clearly its not important enough to me to either make sure I get into the que or to pay the prices a re-seller wants.  

I shaved this morning with a Rockwell razor and a Semogue boar brush using Stirling soap and Dominica Bay Rum aftershave - all widely available at very reasonable prices and I had a great shave, I really enjoyed it and I'm satisfied.

Wow.  OK, I'll grant you that the OP's choice of the word "unethical" may not have been the best word to describe the behaviour he'd witnessed on ebay.  I'll also grant you that BadDad isn't wrong , however, I still say that IMO dude is a scalper and he's a D-bag.  I believe I have the Constitutionally protected right to hold that opinion.  Sure, he's a capitalist and not doing anything illegal (that we're aware of) but I still don't think I'd be interested in sitting down with him over a couple of beers to watch some basketball.  There are lots of behaviours that fall short of breaking laws that are still generally frowned upon.

My thoughts, exactly, Mark.

He can also deny direct sale to scalpers, which I believe he intends to do.


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Really? You think this is possible? You think he is willing to invest the time and research required to weed out every single ebay, reddit and facebook account that over-prices items they resell? You really think that such an effort would be successful?

Seriously...think about what that would take. Now think about how damnably easy it would be to completely circumvent every effort he could possibly make...

He says he intends to, but what can he really do if he is "open for business"? What if Joe "Jackuptheprice" has his wife's cousin buy the brush? That was pretty easy, wasn't it?

And still not "unethical" because Joe's wife's cousin is certainly legally and ethically allowed to make a legal purchase for anyone he chooses. No ethical rules against buying stuff for other people...