#51
DonnerJack Whether or not Martin de Candre is considered "budget" for many, your logic of saving up for a soap with a higher initial cost but lower price per use is the reasoning which I would be most likely to embrace. Thanks for your post! It was explained much better than I could have done myself.
#52

Veni, vidi, vici
Vault 111
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2016, 09:40 PM by primotenore.)
I'll address the original post.
Mama Bears.
A product I purchased at the renaissance of my DE shaving. My lathering technique was probably weak, but I didn't like the lather I got, nor did I like the patchouli scent that I chose. Inexpensive, but wasted money.
Ogallala.
Also inexpensive. Again, I didn't get along with this soap. (Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't these both "melt and pour" soap?)
Inexpensive, but wasted funds.
Tabac refill. Don't own the refill, but am very familiar with the soap. It was 6.99 on amazon (prime). If I knew then what I know now, I would buy a dozen and press them in bowls, or whatever. What a deal!!!
Inexpensive, worth it.
You have to mention Arko. It travels well and gets the job better than done. Hold your breath  Wink
Cheap, worth it.
The next step up has to be Razorock. There's bound to be a formula that will agree with even the most finicky shaver.
Inexpensive, good value.
That's my two cents.
Ciao.

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~~~~
Primo
Shaving since 1971; enjoying my shaves since 2014
A che bel vivere, che bel piacere, per un barbiere di qualità! Happy2
#53
(03-08-2016, 09:19 PM)DonnerJack Wrote: I'll go with Stirling as well. Really close behind is Soap Commander. Third is RazoRock.

Is almost 3$/oz still considered as budget? If so, my first choice would be WSP. Slightly better than Stirling IMO.

About initial cost - isn't it just a matter of patience? If you don't HAVE to buy the soap RIGHT NOW, you can save for it while using other budget soaps with lower initial cost. After you save enough to splurge on the expensive but budget soap, you'll have enough time while going through it to save for a replacement.

Sadly wsp is now $3.75/oz up 50¢/oz from when I last bought some. Far from its oringal $3/oz a year ago Sad I see the price continue to rise and unfortunately making it a no rebuy for me given the competition that performs just as good at a lower price.
#54
(03-08-2016, 09:59 PM)Slyfox Wrote: Sadly wsp is now $3.75/oz up 50¢/oz from when I last bought some. Far from its oringal $3/oz a year ago

Are you sure? I'm looking at their site now and it's 12.99$/4.4oz (2.95$ per oz) for the vegan line and 14.99/4.7oz (3.19$ per oz) for the tallow.
#55
One of my suggestions for a low initial cost soap with a moderate price per use would be Mystic Water. At ~$10/puck and with refills available, I find that it provides a great shave (and spectacular post-shave) without the nasty chemicals that are prevalent in many mass produced products. Similarly, Barrister & Mann's Latha line is a great value with a low initial cost (~$11/puck) and fantastic performance. Phoenix Artisan Accoutrements are not far behind at ~$15/puck, and the large variety of scents will keep you busy for some time. Naturally, Proraso deserves a mention (though I'm not at all impressed by the post-shave feel), and while the price varies because of the size differences, large tubes of the creams can be purchased for a very low price. I have yet to try Haslinger but I suspect it would make the list.

For shavers interested in top performers that have a moderate to high initial cost but a fairly low price per shave (at least for me), I'd suggest Martin de Candre (~$60/puck), Czech & Speake (~$33) - Valobra is also an option, and Savonniere du Moulin (~$26). These are all hard soaps that will last quite some time with my loading method. And if you are looking for a particularly dense cream that will provide many wonderful shaves, I get great mileage out of Castle Forbes (~$26-38). In my experience one tub of Castle Forbes lasts at least 4-5 times as long as a Trumper's bowl.

Unfortunately I haven't had much luck with products that have price points lower than those listed above, but if I could use stuff like Arko or Cella without irritation, I'd have mentioned them.

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#56
I sense that there is some struggling with definitions regarding these categories. Perhaps more precise and stricter definitions of these terms needs to be applied.  I think you might actually have 3 categories here, with some overlap.

For example,  I certainly wouldn't put MdC into a budget category.  It's clearly a luxury soap. Based both on price and performance it's clearly a tier 1 soap.  However, that doesn't mean that it isn't a high value for the money, which is part of the cost per shave equation.  Nevertheless, I guarantee that the cost per shave of true budget shaving soaps such as sticks of Arco or a kilo block of Cella is going to be much less than a your going to get from a container of MdC.   After all, the title of the post suggests that price does matter.

In short I think there may be at least 3 categories of soap being discussed, which would include: 1. Budget Soaps, 2. High Value Soaps and 3. Luxury Soaps.  Obviously, based upon the discussion up to this point, there is considerable overlap between 1 and 2, as well as 2 and 3, but I think classifying MdC, Penhaligan, Aqui de Parma or Xpec  as budget soaps would mean that all soaps are really budget soaps -- you just have to have a pretty large soap budget.

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#57
@"Uzi" You make some great points that will help a lot in clarifying this category. But even if it's true that some products blur the gap between categories #2 and #3, not all soaps that fit into category #3 will automatically fit into #2. For instance, I would certainly not place Penhaligon's or AdP in category #2, yet they clearly fit in #3.

Additionally, I think balancing performance and cost is always important. One could probably find the cheapest soap available in order to maximize financial savings, however, would that necessarily mean that this soap should be considered one of "the very best" budget soaps on the market simply because it is cheap? I'm not so sure about that. For me some of the cheapest soaps available also give me terrible irritation. Because of that, I have to look to maximize my financial savings through category #2.

Moreover I would suggest that categories #1 and #2 are not necessarily mutually exclusive - a high value soap can be a budget soap, and vice versa.

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#58
(03-09-2016, 12:03 AM)NeoXerxes Wrote: One of my suggestions for a low initial cost soap with a moderate price per use would be Mystic Water. At ~$10/puck and with refills available, I find that it provides a great shave (and spectacular post-shave) without the nasty chemicals that are prevalent in many mass produced products. Similarly, Barrister & Mann's Latha line is a great value with a low initial cost (~$11/puck) and fantastic performance. Phoenix Artisan Accoutrements are not far behind at ~$15/puck, and the large variety of scents will keep you busy for some time. Naturally, Proraso deserves a mention (though I'm not at all impressed by the post-shave feel), and while the price varies because of the size differences, large tubes of the creams can be purchased for a very low price. I have yet to try Haslinger but I suspect it would make the list.

For shavers interested in top performers that have a moderate to high initial cost but a fairly low price per shave (at least for me), I'd suggest Martin de Candre (~$60/puck), Czech & Speake (~$33) - Valobra is also an option, and Savonniere du Moulin (~$26). These are all hard soaps that will last quite some time with my loading method. And if you are looking for a particularly dense cream that will provide many wonderful shaves, I get great mileage out of Castle Forbes (~$26-38). In my experience one tub of Castle Forbes lasts at least 4-5 times as long as a Trumper's bowl.

Unfortunately I haven't had much luck with products that have price points lower than those listed above, but if I could use stuff like Arko or Cella without irritation, I'd have mentioned them.

Do you really think of Czech & Speake as a budget soap? The best price I found is $33.00 for 3 travel soaps that total 75g/2.6oz or, $12.69 per ounce. The best price I found for the 90g refill puck is $38.00 or, $12.66 per ounce. Regardless of how hard the pucks are I can't see a soap that cost nearly $13 per ounce being considered a budget soap. The only soaps I can think of that cost more per ounce are AdP and ABC, though I'm sure there are others. The lowest initial investment of the soaps you mentioned is Valobra which sells for around $16.00 at Connaught Shaving. That comes out to $4.57 per ounce for 100g/3.5oz, quite a bit cheaper than C&S. The best deal out of those soaps based on price per ounce is Castle Forbes which comes in at around $4.00 per ounce if bought from Shaving.ie where it sells for $27.74 for 200ml/6.8 fl oz. I could see Valobra for it's lower initial investment and, since it's a hard soap the smaller 3.5oz puck should still last quite a while. Castle Forbes is an excellent shaving cream and that is great price at Shaving.ie however, it's till a very high initial investment.

I guess this all still subjective but, due to having another thread for luxury soaps I think the two should be separate. A luxury soap does not really belong in the budget soaps thread imho. It's not a big deal but just doesn't make sense to me is all.

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#59

Posting Freak
Canada
(03-09-2016, 12:03 AM)NeoXerxes Wrote: One of my suggestions for a low initial cost soap with a moderate price per use would be Mystic Water. At ~$10/puck and with refills available, I find that it provides a great shave (and spectacular post-shave) without the nasty chemicals that are prevalent in many mass produced products. Similarly, Barrister & Mann's Latha line is a great value with a low initial cost (~$11/puck) and fantastic performance. Phoenix Artisan Accoutrements are not far behind at ~$15/puck, and the large variety of scents will keep you busy for some time. Naturally, Proraso deserves a mention (though I'm not at all impressed by the post-shave feel), and while the price varies because of the size differences, large tubes of the creams can be purchased for a very low price. I have yet to try Haslinger but I suspect it would make the list.

For shavers interested in top performers that have a moderate to high initial cost but a fairly low price per shave (at least for me), I'd suggest Martin de Candre (~$60/puck), Czech & Speake (~$33) - Valobra is also an option, and Savonniere du Moulin (~$26). These are all hard soaps that will last quite some time with my loading method. And if you are looking for a particularly dense cream that will provide many wonderful shaves, I get great mileage out of Castle Forbes (~$26-38). In my experience one tub of Castle Forbes lasts at least 4-5 times as long as a Trumper's bowl.

Unfortunately I haven't had much luck with products that have price points lower than those listed above, but if I could use stuff like Arko or Cella without irritation, I'd have mentioned them.


Peter, and, here, I am not even mentioning this. Big Grin

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Celestino
Love, Laughter & Shaving  Heart
#60
Hobbyist I honestly do because of the low price per shave (for me), which as I explained earlier is the logic that I follow when I consider what is "budget" and what is not. I recognize that my opinion on the matter is unpopular, and that I am in the minority on this one. That said, I think it is a valid opinion that has actually been helpful to a few people.

For instance, just as one example (I have a couple of these), I have a friend who I introduced to wet shaving quite some time ago. When choosing to switch from cartridges, his chief concern (like with many of us) was cost. Like me he had irritation with both Arko and Cella, and soon purchased a wide variety of wet shaving gear, mostly in the sub $15 range. He was saving money overall (I joke that one could buy a lineup of solid gold razors and save money compared to cartridge shaving), and apparently those items worked decently for him, but he was always wondering how I got such significant mileage out of my soaps. I pointed out that he was using very soft soaps, which in my experience don't last as long as the harder stuff. We ran the numbers and found that he might actually be spending more than I would with products that are traditionally considered to be in the "luxury" category. I recommended that he purchase a specific product from our very own GiftsAndCare.com, which incidentally is a fantastic vendor with great prices and even better customer service.

Anyway, my recommendation was the Antica Barbieria Colla hard soap (though if I had thought about it I might have also been able to recommend Valobra - I'll keep that in mind for next time). The ABC puck is listed at ~4.4 oz (I actually think that this is an underestimate) for ~$30. From what he tells me (and he's still using that same puck), it has already lasted just as long as three ~$10 soft soaps, and he expects it to equate to about 4-5 refills by the time that it is finished. In other words, for him, buying the budget soaps in a higher volume was actually more expensive than purchasing a hard soap, largely because he gets more mileage out of the more dense product. And the bonus is that he gets better and more comfortable shaves. He may have been able to get a better value out of a few other budget products, but in this case the switch to a more expensive hard soap saved him a bit of money in the long run.

Now obviously I'm not suggesting that the price per use logic only applies to soaps with a high initial cost - any harder soap with an economical price per use will do just fine. I suspect Haslinger and Valobra (though I've only used Czech & Speake for any length of time) would also suffice. Ultimately, my point is that the initial cost aspect is only one aspect of the financial expenditure, and in my view price per use should also be considered if one wishes to save money over a period of time (however I understand that some might not be able to save up to afford the higher initial cost despite a better mileage in the long run). If you can use the more traditional budget soaps without irritation, by all means, that's what I would recommend and there is a reason that they have that reputation. But some folks (like me) get irritation from those for whatever reason, and thus cannot consider those "the very best" of the budget category. Since I suffer from extremely sensitive skin, my options are limited, and I haven't had the best luck with stuff like Arko and Cella. So whether or not you or anyone else consider the pricier hard soaps to be in the "budget" category, for me they are since they don't irritate my allergies and offer a reasonable price per use relative to other alternatives.

My opinion isn't intended to offend anyone, and I will completely understand if you find it useless in this context (since it is after all based entirely on my own experience and allergy issues). Some, however, might find it helpful.

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