The Next Big Breakthrough?

Just my two cents worth:

I won't be interested in anything that requires specialized blades. One of the best things about DE is the interchangeability (and wonderful variety) of components, like blades.

Just a change in which DE blade is used, even with the same face and blade under different circumstances (e.g. shaved yesterday or shaving several days growth), seems to make an interesting difference. The now, ages-old DE blade standard, makes that remarkably easy to do, and I love that!

Another thing I won't be interested in is playing "artisan bingo". If it's readily available, I'm interested. If it requires an act of God to get...fuggetaboutit...no matter how great it purports to be.

I hope our developmental future lies in pre and post shave improvements. THAT'S where significant gains are to be made, seems to me. The quality and efficacy of the shave is, for me, dramatically improved with a hot, freshly-cleaned, wet face...KEPT that way throughout a shave.

I'd like to see improvements in pre-shaves that not only further hydrate and condition the skin for a shave, but LAST for several passes too.

Useful new accessories would be reliable and effective devices to keep BOTH lather and razor warm during a shave as well. That is, YOUR lather, and YOUR razor.

One more thing, developers...

The focus has to be on complementing what we already HAVE, and NOT on "new wheels" that little improve something like DE razor shaving, which is pretty well refined.

In reply to: stesa#49 01-13-2018, 09:05 PM


I like most of your points made.

I agree with the need for advancing DE by attracting new now-cartridge shavers. To that end, I'd like to encourage our gear makers to partner better to build and sell entry-level "kits", al la Van der Hagen, that might include offerings from a soap maker, a razor maker, and include an AS with a paired balm.

Maybe at a $50-$100 price point, and include special offers for upgrades and product extensions too. Especially great around Christmas holidays.

Agree with soap base point of view too; unless new science revolutionizes the shave soap component, our work is done here. What we already have is miles apart from the canned junk I used to use just a couple years ago. Let's spend development energy elsewhere, where improvements are needed--like skin care pre and post shave--especially for aging skin.

I think it's fine for artisans to collaborate on product development, and scent creation is only one area where collaborative efforts may shine.

And although some will disagree, to a considerable extent, all other elements of a product being at the top of their game, we're really buying scent.

Every TOBS cream I've used, as an example, is terrific.

I buy, and like, one over the other for scent.

What I REALLY hope artisans (and larger manufacturers) would do...is increase scent strength.

I'm not asking a shave soap or AS to also be my cologne. BUT, I want to be bathed in a particular scent while I'm using that component of my routine, AND have it linger longer.

Too often, my soap or AS scent begins to diminish right out of the container. That's disappointing.

Remember. I'm buying scent (often primarily) TOO...

Let ME decide what, if anything, to pair a great and lingering soap or AS scent with.

Just give me enough to remember YOU by.

Otherwise, what's the point of the scent?

In reply to: ezlovan#55 01-22-2018, 09:35 PM (an other artisans in the soap, AS, etc. world of DE wet shaving)

The key, I think, isn't a specific product (up front).

The key is scent/fragrance.

YOUR signature scent...even with ancillary scents in a company product line.

Get THAT (e.g. "Polo" in the 80's), and you could sell motor oil to ExxonMobil just for THAT fragrance.

THEN...introduce the DE wet shaving world, through the sense of smell, to the uninitiated.

Never heard of Ralph Lauren before Polo...

I hope our developmental future lies in pre and post shave improvements. THAT'S where significant gains are to be made, seems to me.
…
Useful new accessories would be reliable and effective devices to keep BOTH lather and razor warm during a shave as well.

What I REALLY hope artisans (and larger manufacturers) would do...is increase scent strength.

I'm not asking a shave soap or AS to also be my cologne. BUT, I want to be bathed in a particular scent while I'm using that component of my routine, AND have it linger longer.

I agree that a focus on post-shave is always welcome. For instance, over the last several months, I’ve tried several different post-shave balms, and there are clear differences in just that product category alone. None have been bad, but let me tell you, there are some decent balms and then there are some great ones.

The heat thing is a non-issue to me, as my shaves are with cold water throughout. However, I understand that constant heat during a shave would be very nice for those who prefer it. More and more things can be heated these days, from steering wheels to motorcycle grips and other accessories. Perhaps shaving will see some new innovations in that area, as well.

About scent matters. That has to be among the top two reasons so many of us have so many soaps, aftershaves, etc. (The other reason being performance.) However, this must be a very tricky line for artisans to balance on. First of all, sometimes strongly scented products can cause adverse reactions, and the more strongly scented something is, the more likely it is to cause problems for certain users.

The other aspect is (and this is a bit of a generalization) that many “old world” shavers seem to prefer their scents on the mild side, whereas in the “new world,” stronger scents seem to be the norm. There will probably never be a complete consensus on what constitutes “adequate scent strength”. Artisans could even agree on a scent strength scale, and then we’d be arguing about whether something is truly a 4 or a 6 on that scale.

It would be handy if we could determine the strength ourselves, when placing the order, like people can determine the spiciness of their food at certain restaurants. For soapmakers, that would probably be a manufacturing and inventory nightmare, though…

One solution, which some already offer, is to buy the soap and the scent separately. Then it’s up to the user to find the right strength. However, that option may skip over another aspect that many of us value: unique labeling. I actually don’t mind if a soapmaker sticks to a single nice design throughout their product line. Yet I can’t deny that it’s also exciting to see the new labels that some come up with. (I used to collect LPs… Design was part of the attraction in that hobby, as well.)

I appreciate your thoughts concerning my opinion on scent strength.

Like anyone else, I'd prefer to--and would--avoid any irritation caused by fragrance chemicals in any amount or strength.

Still...I'm willing to bet this is much less an issue then we'd find to be the case.

After all, most of us used a lot of commercial, chemically-laden garbage before we knew or had better, and I've not heard many complaints of irritation caused by those products beyond the ordinary outliers in any population distribution.

Indeed, more than a few of us STILL favor AND use old school aftershaves (for example) that, arguably, are less "healthy" for us than many of the more "wholesome" artisan concoctions now available.

I can use Aqua Velva Blue, and smell like it all day...for $5...but can't get the same from an artisan AS I spend 3-4 times that much on?

That's a problem for me. Ditto for soaps.

Likewise, many of us use much stronger colognes, with inch-long chemical names few can pronounce, and rarely does anyone complain about skin irritation or reaction to the product.

Yet, I do understand that smaller businesses can afford little risk, and that reactions could negatively impact a brand beyond defense or recovery. This is why I merely ask for consideration.

As was pointed out in a contributor's post, soap is mostly perfected at this point.

I want memorable and lasting scents.

Those that provide that, are more likely to get an order than those who don't--all else being well enough.

Those are some good points, Razordude.

Although I know that aftershaves are usually not meant to be “all day scents,” I must admit that I’m disappointed if a new aftershave doesn’t linger even fifteen minutes.

I haven’t gotten into “layering” aftershaves with Eau de Toilettes or Eau de Parfums, for me it’s one or the other. These days, even a lot of EdTs and EdPs seemed to be watered down (based on own observations and fragrance reviews), so I’m always pleasantly surprised if I find an aftershave that is detectable even 4–6 hours later. (I’ve hit the jackpot with a few that last well over 8 hours.)

You're right, and it makes a big difference for those of us who may only wear a cologne occasionally, as good ones are often expensive too.

As an example of what I'm looking for is Fine's line of AS's. Especially, "L'Orange Noire"...

Wonderful whiffs all day to remind me of a great shave I had...

Cheers!

As an example of what I'm looking for is Fine's line of AS's. Especially,  "L'Orange Noire"...
Wonderful whiffs all day to remind me of a great shave I had...
Cheers!

I’ll have to keep that one in mind. It’s especially difficult to pull off much longevity with a citrus scent. One such that I’ve found to work well (and smell good) is Black Ship Grooming Co’s Thomas Tew.

Cheers to more breakthroughs in the business!

In homage to:
(01-24-2018, 04:00 AM)Barrister_N_Mann Wrote:
(01-24-2018, 01:39 AM)Marko Wrote:
(01-23-2018, 05:41 PM)Freddy Wrote:

These gentlemen deserve premium quality soap boxes.

They must have been reading my thoughts.

They are far more diplomatic than I.

Thank you all.

Mickey

Interesting thread indeed, especially the comments from the soap artisans.

But back to the OP 'What's the next big thing?' I think we have to be prepared to say 'nothing'. Here's why (simplified version).

In the olden days, folks shaved with a straight razor, and everyone had a strop and many had a hone to maintain it. Soaps and creams were lathered with a brush.

Then people went to safety razors, injectors, disposables and canned lather or tubed goo. This was the next big thing. It saved time for people in a hurry. Then we lost the DE/SE razors in widespread use.

Going back to soaps and creams that you lather with a brush and DE/SE razors (not to mention straights) will never be seen as an advancement except in our humble community, because for most everyone, that's going backwards, not the next big thing. I doubt that our artisans would ever be able to sell their products profitably at a grocery store or Wallyworld. I'm almost 62 and I remember party lines and 5-digit phone numbers. I bought my first straight in my teens but stopped using it for most of my working career - if you're 20 years old and 20 minutes late, a straight may not be the 'weapon of choice', lol. But I'm not a luddite even though I never did social media (don't care for the busines model) and I have and am proficient with and enjoy modern cellphones, computers, and smart watches (can replace the 'I've fallen and I can't get up button!).

I greatly enjoyed the comments by Mickey, Tidepool, and Marko, and I'm going to throw an image at you that you'll probably recognize immediately. For those who are younger, that's my parent's vintage mahogany telephone table. You sat your corded phone on it and there was room for a phone directory underneath, your address book, and a notepad and pen, maybe an ashtray. You could even set a vase with some flowers on it... There was always a chair by it because many conversations lasted a very long time compared to today's conversations so you wouldn't want to stand that long. No more corded phones which isn't a bad thing, but these days the phone table is a charging station for iPads, iPhones, Apple watches, iPods, camera batteries,  etc. But you probably couldn't make a modern one and sell it as 'the next big thing' in device charging stations.

I also greatly enjoyed Will's comments about perfumery/scents. I've long felt that fragrances are the main weakness of most if not all North American artisans, and you'd never mistake the scents for Floris, Penhaligons, 3Ts, etc. But I don't think that you have to be a master perfumer. The English lines generally smell quite good, but they don't change much and except maybe for Floris, whose core business is fragrances, maybe they do not have a perfumer on staff, just access to one when they need him/her as Matsilainen also said. Maybe something to explore?

Cheers, Steve