#41

Posting Freak
Peachtree City, GA
We also were protected from foreign dumping and had jobs that paid a living wage with benefits and retirement as well as infrastructure that was the envy of the world.

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#42
[Image: KziO3FS.jpg]

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Secretary Ramsey put his foot into it yesterday . . . in the course of his remarks he said that California “needs water and better society.”  “So does h-ll,” yelled someone in the crowd.  
#43
Not really derailed. Sometimes you need to take a look at your past to see a better future.

Clayton

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

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#44

Member
Toronto, Ont. Canada
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2018, 03:39 AM by Mickey Oberman.)
"That's going awfully deep for a discussion about shaving, IMO. New shaving technologies aren't going to impact the world that much, if at all."
[/quote]

WyzeOne,

"Awfully deep" is not a phrase I relish as a daily shaver with  slightly shaky hands.

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#45

Member
Detroit
(01-10-2018, 03:38 AM)Mickey Oberman Wrote: "That's going awfully deep for a discussion about shaving, IMO. New shaving technologies aren't going to impact the world that much, if at all."

WyzeOne,

"Awfully deep" is not a phrase I relish as a daily shaver with  slightly shaky hands.
[/quote]

Good one Mickey! I agree wholeheartedly.

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- Jeff
#46
We already have lots of great wetshaving options at every price point. I think that the next big thing will be marketing those products to people outside of the current traditional wetshaving clientele.

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#47
(01-13-2018, 12:08 AM)Tbone Wrote: We already have lots of great wetshaving options at every price point.  I think that the next big thing will be marketing those products to people outside of the current traditional wetshaving clientele.


That is going to be tough as no artisan has the kind of capital needed to advertise say on TV. A national 30 sec. TV ad starts at appox. $350K.
Secretary Ramsey put his foot into it yesterday . . . in the course of his remarks he said that California “needs water and better society.”  “So does h-ll,” yelled someone in the crowd.  
#48

Posting Freak
Peachtree City, GA
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2018, 02:55 PM by DanLaw.)
Capital is critical and almost impossible to overcome in its absence. We all know of those succeeding capital deficient but posit it is becsuse so rare.

Lutz is fond of stating it is all about product but being candid, would suggest given choice of having a great product and little capital or barely adequate product and capital rich would strongly prefer the latter if predicting the prospect of market success - based on experience in the largest corps to smallest businesses - where one starts is indicative of where one ends

Long and short is agree heartily with BPMan
#49

Member
NYC | Singapore
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2018, 04:17 AM by stesa. Edit Reason: I have terrible grammar. )
Some personal observations on the shaving soap space...

TL;DR: Artisan soap makers, particularly those at the top tier, can benefit from strategic collaborations, subscription models, creative generous sample pricing and bundling.

Observations on The Environment

New Wet Shaver Acquisition is Critical
Stirling is doing a great job at delivering relatively high value, which is why it is always mentioned as a great choice for beginners. I think this ties in well with Rod’s view on the wet shaving market. In an interview with Mantic59, Rod mentions that he sees new customers as the primary driver of growth in the wet shaving market. To capture this group, Stirling is well-positioned with affordable 1 oz samples, starter kit offerings, and low flat below-threshold shipping rate.

Has Strirling / Maggards / West Coast Shaving cornered the new customer market? Scale (and its associated benefits) is a necessity in this market, and there are very few artisans who can boast the scale required to play in this space. However, for artisans who lack scale, there is still an opportunity to capture wet shavers moving up the value chain by operating creatively.

The End of The Soap Base Arms Race?
It may be too early to call this, but I believe we are nearing the end of a soap base arms race. Differences among top tier soaps are becoming more nuanced. Moreover, further improvements to the soap product could lead to cannibalization of aftershaves, which is the product with higher margins for artisans.

Proposed Strategies

(1) Strategic Collaborations
Collaboration (particularly around scent / aftershaves) has emerged as a key differentiator within the shaving soap market. The Chatillon Lux / Declaration partnership is a clear example of this. Zoologist / Chiseled Face is another example, despite my own doubts on whether the product is priced / sized competitively. Nostalgic Grooming / Chiseled Face was another home run: the Ghost Town Barber Matte Water Based Pomade practically disappeared off the Nostalgic Grooming website.

Going forward, cooperation with indie perfumers based in the United States could leverage the best of both worlds – scent expertise provided by the perfumer (would love to see someone collaborate with Andy Tauer) and soap expertise provided by the artisan soap maker.

(2) Subscription / Subscription-like Models
Soap Commander’s Seasonal Scent Crew is an interesting case study. It provides upfront capital to the artisan, and protects the artisan’s wallet share for the year. Top tier artisans which are releasing new scents seasonally could consider implementing this model, which would lock in the customer for the year. Moreover, Soap Commander benefits from information / feedback from the customer base, which reduces the possibility that they release a “dud” scent.

(3) Embed Rebates in Sample Pricing
For top tier soaps that are currently priced at the higher end of the market, it might be worthwhile creating generous samples which come with a rebate when a full tub is purchased. This would effectively lower barrier to entry for shavers moving up the value chain, and increase the incentive for repeat business. We see this practiced in the high-end perfumery business (Parfums MDCI, Maison Francis Kurkdjian). Of course, there is the inherent risk of ending up with a high "sampler" customer base, but I will leave it to the artisans to price accordingly to encourage full tub purchasing behavior.

(4) More For More
One word: bundling. Offering discounts on bundles increases the likelihood of over-purchase. Insidious, yes, but very effective. Moreover, doing this year-round will likely smooth buying patterns, making it less seasonal (e.g. during Black Friday.)

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- Shi Yuan
#50
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2018, 02:05 AM by BPman.)
(01-13-2018, 10:05 PM)stesa Wrote: New Wet Shaver Acquisition is Critical
Stirling is doing a great job at delivering relatively high value, which is why it is always mentioned as a great choice for beginners. I think this ties in well with Rod’s view on the wet shaving market. In an interview with Mantic59, Rod mentions that he sees new customers as the primary driver of growth in the wet shaving market. To capture this group, Stirling is well-positioned with affordable 1 oz samples, starter kit offerings, and low flat below-threshold shipping rate.

Of course, that will be impossible to accurately gauge for us here unless there was say a huge influx of new posters.


Quote:The End of The Soap Base Arms Race?
It may be too early to call this, but I believe we are nearing the end of a soap base arms race. Differences among top tier soaps are becoming more nuanced, particularly within the top tier. Moreover, further improvements to the soap product could lead to cannibalization of aftershaves, which is the product with higher margins for artisans.


I agree.


Quote:Proposed Strategies

(1) Strategic Collaborations
Collaborations (particularly around scent / aftershaves) has emerged as a key differentiator within the shaving soap market. The Chatillon Lux / Declaration partnership is a clear example of this. Zoologist / Chiseled Face is another example, despite my own doubts on whether the product is priced / sized competitively. Nostalgic Grooming / Chiseled Face was another home run: the Ghost Town Barber Matte Water Based Pomade practically disappeared off the Nostalgic Grooming website.

Going forward, cooperation with indie perfumers based in the United States leverages the best of both worlds – scent expertise provided by the perfumer (would love to see someone collaborate with Andy Tauer) and soap expertise provided by the artisan soap maker.


Tough call on this one. It could go either way.


Quote:(2) Subscription / Subscription-like Models...


I don't see this working well. No one wants to be "trapped" in a contract.


Quote:(3) Embed Rebates in Sample Pricing
For top tier soaps that are currently priced at the higher end of the market, it might be worthwhile creating generous samples which come with a rebate when a full tub is purchased. This would effectively lower barrier to entry for shavers moving up the value chain, and increase the incentive for repeat business. We see this practiced in the high-end perfumery business. Of course, the inherent risk of ending up with a high "sampler" customer base, but I will leave it to the artisans to price accordingly to encourage full tub purchasing behavior.


Excellent idea and everyone leaves a winner.  Wink


Quote:(4) More For More
One word: bundling. Offering discounts on bundles increases the likelihood of over-purchase. Insidious, yes, but very effective. Moreover, doing this year-round will likely smooth buying patterns, making it less seasonal (e.g. during Black Friday.)


Need more info here. However, remember when AT&T thought bundling would put them over the top? It failed miserably as they discovered what we here on the forum already know:  people like to shop generally.

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Secretary Ramsey put his foot into it yesterday . . . in the course of his remarks he said that California “needs water and better society.”  “So does h-ll,” yelled someone in the crowd.  


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