Steel pans, better than either teflon or cast iron

I'm still getting accustomed to the steel crepe pan. The other day I turned around rapidly to put an omelet, still in the pan, under the broiler and the omelet almost came out of the pan. Whoops! Old dogs new tricks. Yes they are broiler safe and pretty much any other type of heat safe that I can think of.

I contacted Matfer to find out if they had an estimated time for delivery of my larger pan. I was told they'd be playing catch up for another 2-3 months. I have news for them... after the 12" pan comes in I'll be getting another larger pan and a smaller pan. That should do it.

EDIT: I've been experimenting with what can be gotten away with as far as care goes with this pan. No results with that that I want to share at this time, but the net result was that the pan lost it's seasoning. I discovered that this morning hen I went to fry a ham steak. The steak wasn't exactly sticking but it wasn't acting normal. So I took the hot pan and wiped it under running water. That got rid of the loose seasoning and brought me down to base metal at least in parts. Maybe 60-70% of the bottom was uncovered. I put the wet pan back on the heat and when it all boiled off wiped it with a microscopic layer of flax seed oil and let it smoke a bit. Then finished the ham and eggs. That little bit of care produced the non-stick coating that makes it work so nicely. After breakfast I did the slat and oil seasoning and it's back to where it should be with a heavy seasoning.

FWIW, the interior sides of the pan, and where less wear occurs on the bottom, is starting to get that "black steel pan" look that Matfer calls these pans.

I just realized that the Cook Illustrated video and review is available for free for a time.

Here it is: >>>>>>>>>>>click here<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Someone asked about a specific pan that wasn't in the top picks (sorry but I don't remember the brand name). I believe that's the pan shown in the video with the oddly angled handle.

FWIW, while my 12" pan may not show up for 3-5 months and they're working as fast as they are able, I did order a 14" pan that will take the place of my heavy 14" Lodge CI pan. I use that size instead of a wok*, and the steel pan should be fantastic for stir fries. The large pan should arrive in a just a few days.

* I've found that a wok with it's curved sides simply doesn't work efficiently on a western stove top. But a fry pan with it's flat bottom works fine. It's like night and day in fact.

I might order something in the 6" - 8" range eventually, but I'm in no hurry for that size.

Hi there! I'm a bit confused by all the information online and the contradicting instructions from manufacturers. What was the best method of seasoning that worked for you? I know it's individual preference but I guess a good method works well for the majority of users. Also, do you think it would work just as well for cast iron?

BTW - does anyone know what's the deal with lodge's mineral thingy?

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Hi there! I'm a bit confused by all the information online and the contradicting instructions from manufacturers. What was the best method of seasoning that worked for you? I know it's individual preference but I guess a good method works well for the majority of users. Also, do you think it would work just as well for cast iron?

BTW - does anyone know what's the deal with lodge's mineral thingy?

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

It looks as though CI removed the link above. It had the info for seasoning or I think that it did.

The following is what I do. Yes, I've seen the youtube videos and some are needlessly complex IMO. One gent on our BBQ forum tried to build up a thick layer of seasoning over many wipes and heat cycles and it was a dismal failure. He wound up scrubbing the pan back to bare steel and just did a simple layer of seasoning and using it from then on. That's what I suggest also. It's worked every time for me and it's easy.

When I do it in steel I use a bit of salt, think 1/4 cup or more, and enough oil to wet it but not make it runny. Use the peels from a potato or two also. They are used to determine when the seasoning operation is complete. On the stove top, using medium heat move the oil/salt/peel mixture all around inside the pan. Move the pan around as needed to coat the inside. It doesn't require constant attention, though I like to play with it and keep it moving around. In a steel pan the seasoning can be seen to develop and that's why I move the pan around to make sure that the inside gets evenly browned. It will smoke quite a lot, so be warned to either do this outside or under an exhaust fan. After 10-12 minutes the potato peels will be not golden, but much more deeply browned or almost burned. That's a sign that the process is complete.

OK, a steel pan is grey when it's unseasoned and the process can be seen as it develops. In a cast iron pan, since it's much darker to begin with it can't be seen to develop. IMO that would be the fly in the ointment using this process in CI, but I have done it successfully. Just be mindful that the heat must be distributed around the entire inside of the pan to do the job.

I allow the pan to cool off, then using a paper towel over the sink or garbage can, rub the salt mixture out of the pan and throw it away. If any salt sticks use a bit of water and it will come out immediately. Dry the pan and put a fresh coat of oil in the pan to store it and prevent rusting.

It has been written that Flax seed oil produces the toughest seasoning and that's what I use, but after each use the oil that you use will contribute additional layers of seasoning. While the pan will be non-stick it is NOT oiless frying; oil or fat of some sort must be used.

After subsequent uses of the pan just wipe the pan out after it cools and if something does stick it's OK to use a bit of water and it will come right out. That happens very rarely and it's mostly the juices that come out of things like ham that sticks. I never use detergent on any of my seasoned pans. Anytime I use water in the pan I follow with a smidgeon of oil and wipe most of it out leaving just a dull sheen of oil behind.

If I even suspect that the seasoning has been compromised I just put a microscopic layer of oil in the pan, bring it up to smoking temperature, turn the heat off, and wipe it again while it's still smoking hot. That works fine to reestablish the seasoning if it's mostly still there. That can happen right in the middle of a cook since it can happen so rapidly. I've had to do that once. If it's removed by cooking liquid in the pan I do the salt/oil/peels routine all over.

Another way to season Cast Iron is to make a dark roux. Every time I've ever made dark roux the pan I did it in has been fantastically seasoned afterward. Again, just wipe the pan out after it cools; you won't even need water then.

I hope that helps.

Hi there! I'm a bit confused by all the information online and the contradicting instructions from manufacturers. What was the best method of seasoning that worked for you? I know it's individual preference but I guess a good method works well for the majority of users. Also, do you think it would work just as well for cast iron?

BTW - does anyone know what's the deal with lodge's mineral thingy?

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

It looks as though CI removed the link above. It had the info for seasoning or I think that it did.

The following is what I do. Yes, I've seen the youtube videos and some are needlessly complex IMO. One gent on our BBQ forum tried to build up a thick layer of seasoning over many wipes and heat cycles and it was a dismal failure. He wound up scrubbing the pan back to bare steel and just did a simple layer of seasoning and using it from then on. That's what I suggest also. It's worked every time for me and it's easy.

When I do it in steel I use a bit of salt, think 1/4 cup or more, and enough oil to wet it but not make it runny. Use the peels from a potato or two also. They are used to determine when the seasoning operation is complete. On the stove top, using medium heat move the oil/salt/peel mixture all around inside the pan. Move the pan around as needed to coat the inside. It doesn't require constant attention, though I like to play with it and keep it moving around. In a steel pan the seasoning can be seen to develop and that's why I move the pan around to make sure that the inside gets evenly browned. It will smoke quite a lot, so be warned to either do this outside or under an exhaust fan. After 10-12 minutes the potato peels will be not golden, but much more deeply browned or almost burned. That's a sign that the process is complete.

OK, a steel pan is grey when it's unseasoned and the process can be seen as it develops. In a cast iron pan, since it's much darker to begin with it can't be seen to develop. IMO that would be the fly in the ointment using this process in CI, but I have done it successfully. Just be mindful that the heat must be distributed around the entire inside of the pan to do the job.

I allow the pan to cool off, then using a paper towel over the sink or garbage can, rub the salt mixture out of the pan and throw it away. If any salt sticks use a bit of water and it will come out immediately. Dry the pan and put a fresh coat of oil in the pan to store it and prevent rusting.

It has been written that Flax seed oil produces the toughest seasoning and that's what I use, but after each use the oil that you use will contribute additional layers of seasoning. While the pan will be non-stick it is NOT oiless frying; oil or fat of some sort must be used.

After subsequent uses of the pan just wipe the pan out after it cools and if something does stick it's OK to use a bit of water and it will come right out. That happens very rarely and it's mostly the juices that come out of things like ham that sticks. I never use detergent on any of my seasoned pans. Anytime I use water in the pan I follow with a smidgeon of oil and wipe most of it out leaving just a dull sheen of oil behind.

If I even suspect that the seasoning has been compromised I just put a microscopic layer of oil in the pan, bring it up to smoking temperature, turn the heat off, and wipe it again while it's still smoking hot. That works fine to reestablish the seasoning if it's mostly still there. That can happen right in the middle of a cook since it can happen so rapidly. I've had to do that once. If it's removed by cooking liquid in the pan I do the salt/oil/peels routine all over.

Another way to season Cast Iron is to make a dark roux. Every time I've ever made dark roux the pan I did it in has been fantastically seasoned afterward. Again, just wipe the pan out after it cools; you won't even need water then.

I hope that helps.

Wow! Thank you for the very comprehensive answer. I think this answers everything, except what type of salt if it even matters (coarse, kosher, etc.).
I'll give it a try and report my results.

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I've had to scrub my forced seasoning off and now use the salt & potato method. A couple cooks with that and then using them, has done wonders.

I just use a potato and peel the skin and fry. For the next pan or stage, I just feel the actual potato (not skin at this point) and it is basically like using it in a natural cooking setting.

One tip, if you do the potato method, do it outside on a BBQ if you can, as it can get smoky.

I have Brian to thank for helping me with my DeBuyer Carbon Steel pans, they are fantastic now.

All evidence has been buried. All tapes have been erased.

I just use the cheapest salt that I can find. Basically it's un-iodized food processing salt, similar to a table grind. I get it at the farm supply for just a few dollars per 50lbs. Just use what you have; I happen to have that salt and it's inexpensive so it's what I use. It's not critical since it's just the carrier for the oil. FWIW, I use that same salt for cleaning cutting boards. You could use table salt and it wouldn't hurt anything. The key is inexpensive. :-) Or it is for me.

FWIW, that's Matfers instructions that Cooks Illustrated quantified. I unquantified it in what I wrote. The instructions aren't hard and fast so feel free to take liberties with it. You will need more salt/oil/peels with a bigger pan than you will with a smaller pan. If you use too much mix it will hurt nothing.

Bruce, I think I'm driving my wife nuts... almost every time I use the one crepe pan that I have, and I use it a lot, I mention how much I like it. OK, I really do, that's true, but part of that is a softening process for when my other 2 pans come in. Matfer was caught by surprise and it could be months until they catch up and I see my other pans. At that time I'll mothball the cast iron, less the small pan and the dutch oven. The Lodge 13" CI really is a heavy pan, but the CI wok is much heavier and we don't use the wok anymore. The large fry pan gets used instead of the wok on the huge burner. But I'm starting to ramble now.

DJ, do you have a link to the Lodge Mineral thingy? If it's their steel pan line steer clear of it. It got terrible reviews by Cooks Illustrated. It was way too thin and burned food from what I remember. Lodge does make good modern manufactured CI cookware. I have quite a bit of Lodge that's about to be retired.

You

The French made steel pans came to my attention maybe  a year ago. At the time I knew little about them except that folks who should know really liked them. I filed the info' away in the grey matter and decided I'd explore them at a future time.

The pans that I'd been made aware of were the deBuyer line. They weren't inexpensive and for me to pay a lot of money to replace my cast iron was going to take a lot.

The last issue of Cooks Illustrated reviewed a mess of the steel pans, also called black pans. CI loved them for all the reasons I'd been made aware of, and the winner of the review was a more moderately priced steel pan made for restaurant kitchen use. The winning pan was a specific size of the Matfer brand. The actual name is bigger than that, but I shorten it to Matfer for ease.

So I decided it was time to try them out and ordered the tested size as well as the 9" crepe pan. Everything had been backordered, and the large pan is still backordered, but the crepe pan came in yesterday. The short story is that they are better than either Teflon no-stick pans or cast iron.

The long story continues... Using their suggested seasoning information I had the pan seasoned in short order on the stove top. I used 1:2 flax seed oil and salt, with the peels of a potato also in the pan. Season on medium heat for 8-10 minutes and the seasoning was seen to develop on the pan. I seta timer and the timer and the peels both agreed when the pan was fully seasoned. The peels were crispy and dark brown. One doesn't need to stand over the operation, but one should periodically move things around and up onto the edge of the pan to get that seasoned as well. When the pan is seasoned it will have turned from the grey metal to a brown to dark brown. One never wants to use detergent on that surface, but if that's done, it can be re-seasoned by the same method. There are other ways to re-season it as well, but the oil/salt/peels method is pretty foolproof and yields a perfectly seasoned pan.

So to test the pan I had the peeled potato, and I was cooking supper anyway. I decide on a sandwich, no big production last night. So I sliced a roll open and very lightly buttered both halves. Into the hot pan they went. Just an aside, steel pans come up to heat much more rapidly than cast iron. They also transfer heat much better as well, so you'll want to use a lower heat setting or you'll burn things. I figured that out with the roll. It didn't burn, but that's because I was keeping an eye on things. So the roll was done and cooling, the pan was hot so a bit of butter and the sliced potato went in. Now I've done raw potatoes in cast iron before and they sometimes stick. There was absolutely no sticking to the steel pan. Too, there were no hot spots despite the relatively thin material. When the slices were crisp the pan just wiped clean with a paper towel. No elbow grease required at all.

This morning I gave it a much more difficult test. We cook a product know as Taylor Pork Roll (TPR), aka Taylor Ham. Ours is a knock off version since TPR can be difficult to find in quantities we require it in. When it fries it, makes one heck of a sticky mess in a seasoned cast iron griddle. I use a metal spatula and lots of elbow grease to scrape it off so that I can fry my eggs. So today I fried the TPR and was amazed that the sticky residue wasn't sticking. A bit more butter and the egg went in. There was absolutely no sticking even being cooked in the same pan and with no removal of the TPR residue. After my English muffin sandwich had been assembled I put a paper towel to the pan, and with very minor effort if came clean. No water, no metal scraper, no stainless steel mesh required. It passed possibly the most difficult test I could think of, and passed with flying colors.

These pans are keepers in my kitchen. The plan is to simply not replace the current ($140) Teflon pan when it needs replacing, and Teflon always has a finite life span. We'll also retire our cast iron pans and smaller griddle. The smaller griddle has in fact already been replaced.  Our Stainless steel pan will remain in use, I'll get to why in a minute.

Advantages of the steel pans... They heat rapidly, they transfer heat very efficiently (you'll need to rethink the heat you cook things with), they have no hot spots with the better brands, and they are basically the same price as cast iron. Of course they can also be more expensive.

The deBuyer steel pans didn't get as high a review as the Matfer pans and are twice the price. DeBuyer does make a prettier pan. But I'm not about looks but function. Debuyer handles are riveted on, the Matfer are welded. That yields a pan innard with nothing to catch crud. Myself, I'll stick with the  Matfer pans.

There are other brands and I can't compare them. But Cooks Illustrated did. I was very curious as to the Lodge steel pans, and CI did not like them. The steel is too thin and it had hot spots because of that. Unless Lodge rethinks their pans I would steer clear of them. But why shop around and experiment when Matfer has been in business for 300 years and the pans work so nicely and are priced to sell?

Disadvantages... as already mentioned, do NOT use detergent on them or you'll need to re-season the pan. It's no big deal but with a little forethought you can save yourself that hassle. Too, do NOT simmer wet ingredients in them for more than a few minutes. Again, doing so will require re-seasoning. That where the stainless steel pans come in and why they'll remain in my kitchen. SS doesn't require re-seasoning. Simmer wet ingredients all you like in one and there is no harm. Again, just think ahead.

I wish I had known of steel pans many years ago, but I didn't. A steel pan should be as long lived as any cast iron pan, and future generations will be using the pans one buys today.

Here's my 9" crepe pan taken before cooking my breakfast this morning. The color today might be a hair darker and that's good since the seasoning is thicker. That makes it even more non-stick. Before seasoning the pan was approx' the same color as the handle.
[Image: DSC04279_zpsmcmwg4it.jpg]

Brian, what a great review. I've been thinking about getting some steel pans for a while now. Can you tell me where you got your Matfer pans? IvE been looking on Amazon and naturally a pan that will cost me $173. On the Canadian Amazon can be had for $17 on the US Amazon and they won't ship to Canada. It seems like a conspiracy to screw us poor Canucks. The foreign exchange rate isn't that much.  I also want to tell you how much I enjoy using your Krampert's Finest products, I love the performance and the scent of both the soaps and the aftershaves. Thank you,
Mark

I just use the cheapest salt that I can find. Basically it's un-iodized food processing salt, similar to a table grind. I get it at the farm supply for just a few dollars per 50lbs. Just use what you have; I happen to have that salt and it's inexpensive so it's what I use. It's not critical since it's just the carrier for the oil. FWIW, I use that same salt for cleaning cutting boards. You could use table salt and it wouldn't hurt anything. The key is inexpensive. :-) Or it is for me.

FWIW, that's Matfers instructions that Cooks Illustrated quantified. I unquantified it in what I wrote. The instructions aren't hard and fast so feel free to take liberties with it. You will need more salt/oil/peels with a bigger pan than you will with a smaller pan. If you use too much mix it will hurt nothing.

Bruce, I think I'm driving my wife nuts... almost every time I use the one crepe pan that I have, and I use it a lot, I mention how much I like it. OK, I really do, that's true, but part of that is a softening process for when my other 2 pans come in. Matfer was caught by surprise and it could be months until they catch up and I see my other pans. At that time I'll mothball the cast iron, less the small pan and the dutch oven. The Lodge 13" CI really is a heavy pan, but the CI wok is much heavier and we don't use the wok anymore. The large fry pan gets used instead of the wok on the huge burner. But I'm starting to ramble now.

DJ, do you have a link to the Lodge Mineral thingy? If it's their steel pan line steer clear of it. It got terrible reviews by Cooks Illustrated. It was way too thin and burned food from what I remember. Lodge does make good modern manufactured CI cookware. I have quite a bit of Lodge that's about to be retired.

http://www.debuyer.com/en/products/miner...nd-fry-pan

Turns out I was confused - I meant the de buyer one. I'm trying to get a sense out of the wide terminology used (black steel, French steel, carbon steel, blue steel, etc.).

You're not alone with using the cheapest salt laying around

I got mine directly from (basically) Matfer Bourgeat (sp?) USA. Here's the link: http://www.culinarycookware.com/matfer-b...kware.html

Lots of Matfers pans are out of stock and will be for months.

They have all sorts of professional cooking gear; not just black steel pans. BTW, the pans are far from black. Maybe after a few years of use they're black.

DJ, DeBuyer is about 2x the price of the Matfer. They work just as good, but got low marks for the odd angle that the handle is at. So said Cooks Illustrated anyway. But if you want it now and can't wait I know lots of folks who have them and love them. That's what Bruce has and I haven't heard any complaints from him. I'm just too tight with a buck to spend the extra money. I know nothing about DeBuyer other than that.