Shave review of Janus Adjustable razor and Shave Off vs Gillette F4 Toggle

Got the same email  message and I’m ordering mine now.  Glad I read the last couple posts as I thought it wasn’t going to be open until tomorrow.

Thanks guys!

Thanks Dragonsbeard

Gents,

I will log in on Sat 9am CT  and Sun (after 2pm-ish) to answer any questions folks might have; more like a AMA on the Janus Razor. I will be on tomorrow as well but more towards later in the evening. 

Cheers!

Just ordered.

Many thanks Eric!

Eric:
1. I thought I had read earlier in this thread you said there would be a $250 or $300 deposit, yet it appears the full payment is due immediately. Why the change? How is what you did on DFS and different that the Kickstarter campaign...other than the razor is much, much smaller?
2. Full payment up front, on a product that may not ship for 4 to 5 months. Does that put potential buyers outside of any protection offered by PayPal? What assurances are there that there will actually be razors built?
3. Earlier in this thread, I believe you stated all refund requests would be honored. You gave no stipulations. Is that still your intent? Refunds will be immediately returned, at any point prior to shipping? Is there a "drop dead" refund request date?

Thanks in advance for your time.

1.  I thought I had read earlier in this thread you said there would be a $250 or $300 deposit, yet it appears the full payment is due immediately.  Why the change?  How is what you did on DFS and different that the Kickstarter campaign...other than the razor is much, much smaller?

 
I had thought the same thing.  If you look at post #321, I think that is where the confusion lies.  Once I reread the post, it indicates that splitting the payment was an initial thought/hope but because this process was now being completed with no tools, splitting the cost may not be feasible (although this last part was not directly said).

I was under the same impression, that Half would be due up front, and Half would be due on completion of the Razor. I don’t believe that PayPal would have buyer protection for something like this, a project that won’t be completed for five or six months. This doesn’t seem to be any different than the Kickstarter attempt.

Post 336 says it will be $500

Eric:
1.  I thought I had read earlier in this thread you said there would be a $250 or $300 deposit, yet it appears the full payment is due immediately.  Why the change?  How is what you did on DFS and different that the Kickstarter campaign...other than the razor is much, much smaller?
2.  Full payment up front, on a product that may not ship for 4 to 5 months.  Does that put potential buyers outside of any protection offered by PayPal?  What assurances are there that there will actually be razors built?
3.  Earlier in this thread, I believe you stated all refund requests would be honored.  You gave no stipulations.  Is that still your intent?  Refunds will be immediately returned, at any point prior to shipping?  Is there a "drop dead" refund request date?

Thanks in advance for your time.

Good questions LOOT. 

After the Kickstarter didn’t succeed, I had to think of other ways to make the parts without tooling. The Kickstarter costs and hence my pricing then assumed using some tools to produce blanks. Tools were for just blanks so not crazy expensive but nonetheless expensive for a small upstart. Tools make part price lower.

My reality is tool-less. No tooling costs mean high part costs.

My costs went up such that it didn’t make sense to have buyers pay partial and then the remaining at delivery. The difference was small. But I kept price the same. I chased cost reductions elsewhere to counter this. But areas to squeeze were few and far between. That is why it took a while for me to come back with the pricing for the Limited Edition Janus. We had to actually figure how to make these without tools and at what cost before I could take orders.  

I think most people see the $500 price, and automatically think my costs are $250 coz of ‘retail rules’. I’m generalizing here which I hate to do. First, one must find a crazy shop that wants to take this on knowing very well that the volumes are low, and the effort upfront might not pay off. Then one doesn’t necessarily pick the lowest quote either. Or the people that want to work with you might not be the cheapest. After this first batch, the shop and I will both know our exact costs. The shop will adjust his price accordingly, and I will adjust my selling price accordingly also to cover the final cost and a reasonable profit.

I’m using my own powder to cover refunds even midway through the project, milling, assembly and laser marking fixtures, and I’m producing slightly more than 51 just in case couple get scratched during assembly, I will still have 50 pristine units to send to customers. Still, only 50 will be out there.

There are lots of nuances and complexities in the project than meets the eye. I think one can’t simply guesstimate a razor’s cost from looking at another razor. For example, the nature of the Janus is such that everything is not produced under one roof. Surely, the machine shop does a bulk of the work.

Take one of my open razor renders and have 3 or so local shops give you quick estimate on the doors (qty 100). You will get a good reference on what things cost. Then add your values/philosophy on how you create and make stuff.

Most of the feedback I have received is on the wait time. Rightfully so, you and others have been implicit on price. I understand that concern. Some folks might be worried about the creator accountability like what you would find on Kickstarter. But then again, they didn’t support the Kickstarter when it was live. That is why I communicated in the newsletter that the ideal person is one who is comfortable with small reasonable hiccups and will stick around to the end…like I stuck through the design challenges when I was prototyping…

I can take you off the reserve list to make room for somebody who is considering jumping in. However, I would like to have you as a future customer when you are comfortable and I’m in regular production.

Just ordered.

Many thanks Eric!

Thanks Neko

Eric:
1.  I thought I had read earlier in this thread you said there would be a $250 or $300 deposit, yet it appears the full payment is due immediately.  Why the change?  How is what you did on DFS and different that the Kickstarter campaign...other than the razor is much, much smaller?
2.  Full payment up front, on a product that may not ship for 4 to 5 months.  Does that put potential buyers outside of any protection offered by PayPal?  What assurances are there that there will actually be razors built?
3.  Earlier in this thread, I believe you stated all refund requests would be honored.  You gave no stipulations.  Is that still your intent?  Refunds will be immediately returned, at any point prior to shipping?  Is there a "drop dead" refund request date?

Thanks in advance for your time.

Good questions LOOT. 

After the Kickstarter didn’t succeed, I had to think of other ways to make the parts without tooling. The Kickstarter costs and hence my pricing then assumed using some tools to produce blanks. Tools were for just blanks so not crazy expensive but nonetheless expensive for a small upstart. Tools make part price lower.

My reality is tool-less. No tooling costs mean high part costs.

My costs went up such that it didn’t make sense to have buyers pay partial and then the remaining at delivery. The difference was small. But I kept price the same. I chased cost reductions elsewhere to counter this. But areas to squeeze were few and far between. That is why it took a while for me to come back with the pricing for the Limited Edition Janus. We had to actually figure how to make these without tools and at what cost before I could take orders.  

I think most people see the $500 price, and automatically think my costs are $250 coz of ‘retail rules’. I’m generalizing here which I hate to do. First, one must find a crazy shop that wants to take this on knowing very well that the volumes are low, and the effort upfront might not pay off. Then one doesn’t necessarily pick the lowest quote either. Or the people that want to work with you might not be the cheapest. After this first batch, the shop and I will both know our exact costs. The shop will adjust his price accordingly, and I will adjust my selling price accordingly also to cover the final cost and a reasonable profit.

I’m using my own powder to cover refunds even midway through the project, milling, assembly and laser marking fixtures, and I’m producing slightly more than 51 just in case couple get scratched during assembly, I will still have 50 pristine units to send to customers. Still, only 50 will be out there.

There are lots of nuances and complexities in the project than meets the eye. I think one can’t simply guesstimate a razor’s cost from looking at another razor. For example, the nature of the Janus is such that everything is not produced under one roof. Surely, the machine shop does a bulk of the work.

Take one of my open razor renders and have 3 or so local shops give you quick estimate on the doors (qty 100). You will get a good reference on what things cost. Then add your values/philosophy on how you create and make stuff.

Most of the feedback I have received is on the wait time. Rightfully so, you and others have been implicit on price. I understand that concern. Some folks might be worried about the creator accountability like what you would find on Kickstarter. But then again, they didn’t support the Kickstarter when it was live. That is why I communicated in the newsletter that the ideal person is one who is comfortable with small reasonable hiccups and will stick around to the end…like I stuck through the design challenges when I was prototyping…

I can take you off the reserve list to make room for somebody who is considering jumping in. However, I would like to have you as a future customer when you are comfortable and I’m in regular production.