Shave review of Janus Adjustable razor and Shave Off vs Gillette F4 Toggle

If you lost “friends” over a razor discussion, they weren’t friends to begin with. In all honesty, I no longer care about ANY shave video/reviews due to the fact these products are all subjective. Shave-offs conducted by others will tell me NOTHING about how a razor will work for me. The first thing I look at with any new razor is the design. If it catches my eye, I look closer. If it doesn’t, I move on.

This razor has ZERO visual appeal to me so it has zero chance of ending up in my razor stand. It is still interesting to follow the thread to see what is being said.

It's odd....no one really argues or gets upset about Fatboys, Aristocrats or Flare Tips.

So what is it about these high-end, pricey razor that brings out all the aggro?
It's not a rhetorical question, I'd love to know.

When I was entering this hallowed territory 3 months ago, I had to wade through tons
of verbiage. Some of it extremely helpful – some, to be frank, mind-numbingly tedious. The voices that
shone through in their descriptions were members like LOOT, Sharp_Obsession, Kehole, Pork, Glock, Shave MD
and a whole lot of others I'm forgetting. I used to make screenshots of the posts and keep them in a folder
and read them again and again. At last count I had made at least 80 such screen shots. Thanks to these blokes,
I landed on my first piece without screwing it up.

The Wolfman WR2 Head thread is a great example of the power of this forum at work, so it would be good to
move forward keeping that in mind.

I think you answered your own question.......the vast difference in cost. I'm all for letting people do what they want with their own $$$ though.

All our faces and skin and beard types are unique. What works for one will not work for another.

What’s important for any razor that I would like to buy is form and function.

In terms of smoothness and aggression... well that for me is based on technique.

I can get a good shave out of a 99 cent Bic disposable by changing my technique ....omg blasphemy lol.

Anyways I like the original posters analysis and he is doing a good job. But on the other hand all points are valid about reviewing a razor that might or will not be the same in production. Those are valid concerns seeing how Rockwell Razors ending being a customer relations disaster.

As far as cost goes, buy it because you like it. Some can justify it and some can. All reasons are valid.



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I haven't read the entire thread, but I appreciate Dragonsbeard taking the time to do all of the photos, comparisons, write ups, reply to questions, etc., etc.. if you're not into the review, don't kill the man!

Tester28 Civil discussion without snide, passive -aggressive behaviour is the standard to strive for on forums,
and I support it fully. To borrow from a phrase used in football, we play the ball, not the man.
[/quote]

You know what I agree with you 100% on the quoted part of your post so with that said a very good comment but unfortunately that has not been the way of this thread has gone.  I can read between the lines in more than a few posts and what you call snide subliminal remarks are very clear to me and in some cases why they are made. Look I came on here to do a Shave Off with a prototype not a production model and to also compare it to the original Toggle razor just as a comparison. I was very happy to do it as I've never tested or compared a prototype from anyone so it was a task I was glad to do. Aso with a prototype what I've been exposed to when working with prototypes or samples of a pre production product in other industries I'm involved with the normal path is usually to do it to ask people's opinions, get feedback and to hear constructive criticism or should I say more suggestive input about a prototype to make it better or in maybe so just leave it just as it is etc.  etc. In this case it's a razor so maybe someone might say I'd like to see it with a lower profile head or I'd like to see it in Titanium or I think the handle is to thick for example.  This is not the way this thread went!  First I was asked to abandon my plan for this Shave Off by going right to the most efficient razor in my den for a comparison Shave Off which looking back was probably a mistake on my part as there are many people that will never get a custom gap Wolfman nor relate to it or how it shaves other than a few members that may have one on here. More people relate razors like Gamechanger, Karve,Timeless, Charcoal, Blackland, Paradigm and regular gap Wolfman razors rather than custom gap razors. At the time I was happy to do it as my own curiosity got the better of me and I went along with it and from a personal standpoint I'm glad I did as it told me a lot about the Janus razor and it's shaving capabilities.  WIth that said I never thought this razor would bring out some of comments that in the manner with your highlighted  topics you described above.  It's a Shave Off and one man's opinion  and that's all I can give or offer is just that! If my reviews don't please, connect or align any  member on here then so be it and I can surely relate to that as  I have also have my thoughts when I see a post or thread about a razor or shaving gear etc and I don't like the product or disagree with what message the thread or OP or even individual posters say but rather than drop a rainstorm of negativity into a thread I just say ok don't agree and move on! If I feel that I can add some good insight, suggestions or be helpful in any way then I may drop a post in with my comments. There are many statements in this thread I could commnet about that maybe are as accurate as they are written but I'd rather take the high road than the low road and just keep it to myself. I've learned to have thick skin a long time ago from the people  I grew up around. I'm not going to add more drama or negativity to this thread by responding or calling out some of those statements that have been made that some may view differently if I posted my thoughts on but I'd rather move onto more constructive, informative posts and leave all that behind.  

I've got a lot of valuable information from my meeting today from Eric and I also conveyed some of the concerns and questions that were brought up in this thread to him.  He could not as some said just come on here and comment in the thread without either getting a vendors membership which does state that you have to have a website open where a person can buy the item. So he had to contact a moderator who so kindly is allowing him to post on here from the brief info I gathered. from his confirmation text just a few minutes ago. He is also going to post up drawings that show the production head with all the info on it. So hopefully this thread can get back on track and members can have good constructive talks with him.

I'll continue to post Shave Offs until the razor has to go to Mark and he can take it from there!

Thank you for the supportive words Andrew.

Like I've stated I'm just here to do some Shave Offs and that's it. Hopefully when Eric comes on here tomorrow he can answer the members questions and concerns and hopefully everyone can keep this thread more constructive, informative and all be more gentlemanly like as i thought this is what this hobby is all about.

Janus Razors just got set up as a merchant here a few minutes ago, we've been chatting through emails. I'm sure he'll be chiming in on this thread soon enough.

Hi fellow wetshavers,

This is Eric from Janus Razors. I had a chance to read Frank’s write-up on Thursday and follow comments. Good stuff! We can agree on some things. Like me being here sooner, more frequent and engaging more. This rubbed some people the wrong way; my apologies. There are fewer points we can agree to disagree. Please have a read and perhaps use what I’m saying and what folks have commented as riffing points for this evening and Sat and Sun when I log in again after folks have had a chance to read my reply.

When Frank reached out to test the prototype, I never told him to compare against the Toggle. However, what he did makes sense to me. I don’t see anything wrong with a reference point most people can relate to instead of comparing to unobtanium. I’m new to these shave-offs, my opinion on this point might not be relevant. What he did makes sense to me.

About a year and a half ago, I spent about a week reading up a ton on the shaving forums. My take – Over the years, lots of razors have been tested, and a continuum has been established of good to great razors. The forums shine when it comes to anchoring a razor on that continuum. Folks who are good at testing razors render judgement like razor X is between Y and Z in efficiency, smoothness, blade feel & feedback, etc.Then some forum members use that to make a purchase decision.

As far as feedback to help product development, most of what I saw then were things like “make the blade gap in your razor to be the same as X”. I wasn’t sure how that would be useful to a creator when there are other differences at play in the head geometry. I concluded that mimicking blade gap of others won’t make razor X perform as razor Y. My mistake was judging after just a week. It would be foul if somebody judged me after just a week. I will admit that I should hang out here and check in more often. I’ll do better.

We can agree to disagree that bad technique might not mean that the razor is no good. I bet the designers of Tiger’s golf clubs can’t play as good as him. The creators that made the saxophones for Miles probably couldn’t play a tenth as good as Miles. What some DFS members are suggesting is like Miles saying, since you can’t play the sax as good as me, there’s no way the saxophone you are making is any good. A lot of times, the creator is never the expert user. Creating a product is more science than art, and using the product is more art than science. I’m not saying one is superior than the other. That is why Leonardo is the ultimate renaissance man; He was great at both Art and Science. He could do it all! I wish I was great at both! We will agree to disagree here. What I’m saying is please cut Eric some slack. I’m still learning! My technique might be s***, but I can hang with most of you when it comes to passion for this crazy hobby that most outsiders don’t get. And I can hang with some of the best engineers too.

There’s more to a safety razor than just Blade Gap. Even in the Fatboy and Toggle patents, the creators were obsessing about blade exposure. We can all agree that those folks knew a thing or two about shaving. It is like a car maker being obsessed with only horsepower. I think for razors, one must worry and account for all three. In fact, one can make razors with big blade gaps but negative exposure.
I consider changing Blade Gaps and Blade Angles is just a means to an end (Blade Exposure which translates to efficiency). All these things are tied up. You change one thing, you affect something else. I like to say that nothing is free…when a change is made to a design, one must evaluate and make sure the change helps more than it hurts. Sometimes this tradeoff manifests itself as the product performing better in one aspect and underperforming in another aspect. Other times, product performance improves but the cost of a part goes up. This help vs. hurt tradeoff is almost always present. I’m saying almost coz there might be exceptions I’m not thinking of.

The feedback I have gotten about the Janus prototype is that it shaves good – smooth, efficient and with no nicks even at the highest setting. The no nicks part could be attributed to good technique of the testers so we can kinda toss that out. So, when I iterated one more time to get the production design, I didn’t mess much with the Gap, Angle and Exposure. Just tweaks. Somebody with a shaving blog who I respect a lot commented that he thought some users might run out of efficiency. Another tester pointed this out, so I decided to up the blade exposure a little. Setting 3 in the prototype became setting 2 in production, setting 4 in the prototype became setting 3 in production, and so forth.
This is like the Janus Production starting at 2 of the F4 Toggle and setting 8 being 9 in the F4 Toggle. This slight change implemented in the production razor adds more efficiency, but smoothness might change a little. By how much, I frankly don’t know. But most of the folks in the forums already have proper technique so this probably won’t hurt them as much as me trying to venture to out there.



The high dome is one of the things that some prototype testers complained about. Since the shave was good, I kept things relatively the same (other than the slight bump in blade exposure). Remember I made the Janus Production more aggressive than the Janus Prototype/Gillette Toggle to add a little more runway for folks still wanting more efficiency after 9.  As you can see below, I have the same sets of Angle, Gap and Exposure (7=6, 8=7, 9=8 etc.) even with different door (dome) profiles. At the same time, the training wheels (setting 1-3) are still forgiving for folks new to wetshaving or changing technique. The Janus Production dome height is in line with that of the slim adjustable.



A good analogy would be to think of a piece of software that still does the same thing but the UX (like entering in the data and setting test jobs) is less clunky. So, the Janus Production design with the lower profile doors increases the UX when shaving around the mouth, nose and ears.

Another thing to pick up from the first image is that with a different blade brand, one can change efficiency without changing the setting. Feathers have a wider width than choices like Derby (which all of you hate & I have gotten lots of recommendations on brands to give a try) so they will overhang more. The Janus, and any razor for that matter would be more efficient when using Feathers for example.

Nobody who has tried the Janus prototype has complained about the weight, OD and length (same as Super 109). Some folks who have seen the prototype photos have complained about the weight, OD and length. Understandably, some will balk at the extra length, width and weight. Consider how The Mini (MK I), the small car icon of the 60s, has evolved to today’s longer, wider and heavier MINI without sacrificing comfort, drivability, safety and appeal. In the 60s, men’s wrist watches had case sizes as low as 33mm. Today, almost all new models never dip below 38mm, and most are wider (40-43 mm) and heavier while still being comfortable. These analogies might not right analogies but my $.02 anyways.

Andrew was gracious enough to quickly get me set-up so that I can l log in add to the conversation. I will log in on Saturday (10am-ish) to chat, add to the conversation, and answer any questions. I will also log in on Sunday in the afternoon to answer questions for folks that can’t make Saturday. I will stick around this evening until I gotta run to take care of family stuff.

Cheers,
Eric.

Andrew....can the transcripts of the chats be posted in here....or, is the chat to happen in this thread, with posts?

Thanks in advance.

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Eric, thank you for joining the conversation and giving your perspective. I look forward to learning more about the Janus razor and maybe even meeting you at Maggards Meet.