#51
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2020, 07:52 PM by Gopneg.)
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If I may, I'll tell you a recent incident with me.
I saw an ad on the online marketplace. Man sold his not new Razormen shaving brush. The most ordinary person. I didn't know him. I knew the shape of this handle, it's good for me, and I knew the brushes of this store.
I wrote to this man, buying. I bought this, he sent it. Everything is as usual.
I got the package, opened it at home in the evening and was upset. The handle of the shaving brush burst in several places.
It was winter, the wood froze, the moisture in it froze and tore the wood.
I could foresee this situation in advance, at 40-45 degrees of frost 100% moisture will freeze and break the tree. The seller's packaging is excellent. I did not even think about the manufacturer's guarantee, the conditions for the transportation and sale of used goods were violated.
I wrote a letter to the seller and attached a couple of photos.
I did not say any complaints, questions or wishes. I warn the seller not to send wooden items in winter.
and forgot about it.
I already have a broken shaving handle, a great brush and a pair of hands. I filled the handle with epoxy resin, polished and put it in linseed oil.
But the seller sent me a letter.
I need to get the broken shaving brush back because the manufacturer has already sent me a new one. I replied that I could only return in this state. But I don't want to do that. I'm happy with what I already have.
I understand that my seller wrote a letter to the manufacturer that I would not be able to return the broken shaving brush, and the manufacturer said that this is not a problem, I have already sent a new one, I need nothing in the answer.
The situation is like this:
The seller wrote a letter to a well-known blogger, asked how he should do the right thing in this situation.
The blogger wrote a letter to the store that makes these brushes.
The store owner wrote a letter to my seller and asked him for my mailing address. And he sent me a new shaving brush.
This can be confirmed by all three participants in this situation.
Here is a photo of a broken handle and a new shaving brush.

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#52

Posting Freak
Peachtree City, GA
Is it not generally accepted legal doctrine that the draftee of a warranty or contract is to have any turbidity interpreted in the least favourable outcome regarding their interest?

Marko and Gopneg like this post
#53

Posting Freak
(07-25-2020, 07:01 PM)DanLaw Wrote: Is it not generally accepted legal doctrine that the draftee of a warranty or contract is to have any turbidity interpreted in the least favourable outcome regarding their interest?

Yes, the doctrine of contra proferendum which holds that the drafter of a contract will have the contract strictly interpreted against them in the event that the wording is ambiguous.  I'm not sure if it holds in cases of warranties and guarantees of this sort.  Its been a while since I've looked at Contracts 101.

Gopneg likes this post
#54
(07-25-2020, 05:26 PM)Marko Wrote: I've followed this thread since the start and while I think its unfortunate that the OP has a broken razor, however, I think its inaccurate to say that Rockwell's warranty is not valid or that they are somehow a "bad actor". 

 A warranty is generally a carefully crafted extension of legal rights to certain parties in certain conditions.  Its a contract between a manufacturer/seller and a buyer and its usually not transferrable.  It has specific terms and conditions that must be met to be legally enforceable.  Shaming or coercing Rockwell into extending those legal rights to a party where the terms and conditions aren't met is a stretch.  I'll grant you that there's no harm in asking and its true that some parties in the wet shaving space will extend their warranty in circumstances where it strictly speaking doesn't apply.  They do this in their discretion, freely and voluntarily and as Shane of Blackbird mentioned above, its a little easier for a smaller player to do this than larger ones.  Its a problem extending a warranty to a person who has no receipt, can't remember where or when he bought it or how it was paid for, they just have the broken item in their possession.  Thats a tough one from Rockwell's perspective.  

So here are some tips for increasing the likelihood that your warranty will be honoured: 

- Remember where you bought the item;
- Inspect the item for damage before you accept it - can't do it online but for sure in a brick and mortar;
- If you purchase online then inspect the item as soon as you receive it, if its damaged contact the vendor asap with pictures;
- Pay with a credit card and keep the receipt. If you buy online, retain the electronic invoice;
- inquire with vendor first about exchange, most will do that for you and they will deal with the manufacturer;

There is so much secondary market activity in wet shaving with both hardware and software that the bigger ticket hardware makers have to limit their warranties just like any other manufacturer of products does and its common knowledge that "lifetime warranty" almost always means the life of the product in the hands of the original purchaser - read the warranty.  

I am sorry that the OP has had this unfortunate experience and I am by no means suggesting that there has been any attempted malfeasance on anyone's part, but you have to agree that there has been a certain amount of carelessness on the OP's part regarding proof of purchase and I don't think its an indication of bad faith that Rockwell has chosen to rely on the strict interpretation of its warranty in this case.  I appreciate that the OP has posted about his unfortunate experience with Rockwell.  The takeaway that we can all learn from the OP's experience is that we should be more careful in retaining proof of purchase receipts on the off chance that a problem arises.  The more expensive the product the higher the degree of care and attention to retaining receipts.

https://www.getrockwell.ca/pages/quality-guarantee

I pasted Rockwell's guarantee wording from its website (.com is the same) and the Lifetime warranty is only on the 6s, the others have a 60 day replacement guarantee and there's also a parts replacement in some cases. Its stated that the guarantee applies to a "customer's" "purchase" which means that you have to establish that you are a customer who purchased the razor - mere possession of the razor isn't enough. I would add that in my opinion, Rockwell's wording regarding its guarantee could be clearer and more explicit. The wording on their website strikes me as the victory of the marketers over the lawyers - I would have had much more explicit wording. Marketers hate that because they feel it has a chilling effect and kills the vibe.

Actually, I think the wording could be clearer. In addition to the 60-day money back guarantee, there is the following separate section.

"Free replacements.

If your razor arrives with any sort of defect, be it a manufacturing flaw or cosmetic imperfection, we will send you a replacement, free of charge, as soon as possible."`

The "Free replacements" section does not refer to the 60-day limitation for getting money back.

To me, the issue is not one of contractual interpretation or strict enforcement as a means to avoid doing the right thing. Here, Rockwell tried to blame the consumer for its own rather blatant manufacturing flaw (a issue they mention in their own "Free replacements" section). Shaming Rockwell seems appropriate.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

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#55
(07-25-2020, 05:26 PM)Marko Wrote: I've followed this thread since the start and while I think its unfortunate that the OP has a broken razor, however, I think its inaccurate to say that Rockwell's warranty is not valid or that they are somehow a "bad actor". 

 A warranty is generally a carefully crafted extension of legal rights to certain parties in certain conditions.  Its a contract between a manufacturer/seller and a buyer and its usually not transferrable.  It has specific terms and conditions that must be met to be legally enforceable.  Shaming or coercing Rockwell into extending those legal rights to a party where the terms and conditions aren't met is a stretch.  I'll grant you that there's no harm in asking and its true that some parties in the wet shaving space will extend their warranty in circumstances where it strictly speaking doesn't apply.  They do this in their discretion, freely and voluntarily and as Shane of Blackbird mentioned above, its a little easier for a smaller player to do this than larger ones.  Its a problem extending a warranty to a person who has no receipt, can't remember where or when he bought it or how it was paid for, they just have the broken item in their possession.  Thats a tough one from Rockwell's perspective.  

So here are some tips for increasing the likelihood that your warranty will be honoured: 

- Remember where you bought the item;
- Inspect the item for damage before you accept it - can't do it online but for sure in a brick and mortar;
- If you purchase online then inspect the item as soon as you receive it, if its damaged contact the vendor asap with pictures;
- Pay with a credit card and keep the receipt. If you buy online, retain the electronic invoice;
- inquire with vendor first about exchange, most will do that for you and they will deal with the manufacturer;

There is so much secondary market activity in wet shaving with both hardware and software that the bigger ticket hardware makers have to limit their warranties just like any other manufacturer of products does and its common knowledge that "lifetime warranty" almost always means the life of the product in the hands of the original purchaser - read the warranty.  

I am sorry that the OP has had this unfortunate experience and I am by no means suggesting that there has been any attempted malfeasance on anyone's part, but you have to agree that there has been a certain amount of carelessness on the OP's part regarding proof of purchase and I don't think its an indication of bad faith that Rockwell has chosen to rely on the strict interpretation of its warranty in this case.  I appreciate that the OP has posted about his unfortunate experience with Rockwell.  The takeaway that we can all learn from the OP's experience is that we should be more careful in retaining proof of purchase receipts on the off chance that a problem arises.  The more expensive the product the higher the degree of care and attention to retaining receipts.

https://www.getrockwell.ca/pages/quality-guarantee

I pasted Rockwell's guarantee wording from its website (.com is the same) and the Lifetime warranty is only on the 6s, the others have a 60 day replacement guarantee and there's also a parts replacement in some cases.  Its stated that the guarantee applies to a "customer's" "purchase" which means that you have to establish that you are a customer who purchased the razor - mere possession of the razor isn't enough.  I would add that in my opinion, Rockwell's wording regarding its guarantee could be clearer and more explicit.  The wording on their website strikes me as the victory of the marketers over the lawyers - I would have had much more explicit wording.  Marketers hate that because they feel it has a chilling effect and kills the vibe.

Sir, I showed you a photo of a razor. Does she look like an old razor? and could I only do such damage with my own hands? this part has no traces from the tool, it is visible very well.
BUT! they say on the site that if you yourself broke the razor, then we will give a replacement, but pay for the delivery.
h ttp s ://getrockwell.com/pages/quality-guarantee
Did I get it right?
and here it is? "100% quality guaranteed, or your money back."
Do I understand correctly?
"All other razors come with a 60-day money-back guarantee."
does this phrase mean that if I don't want this razor, I can return it within 60 days? What if I want that razor? In this case, what line of their official guarantee describes my situation?
"Free replacements."
If your razor arrives with any sort of defect, be it a manufacturing flaw or cosmetic imperfection, we will send you a replacement, free of charge, as soon as possible."
Is this only valid for 60 days?
I highlighted two points with the arrow.
checked? I'm willing to pay for vision treatment for the person who checked my razor.
the second photo shows that this is a model T page and that a lifetime warranty is written under this razor.
can it be interpreted differently?
English is not my native language, it is the fourth for me, I may not correctly interpret what I wrote. since any translator does not always work correctly.
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#56

expert shaver
Panther's Stanley Cup Champs
I totally agree with Gopneg that he should be able to get a replacement razor.

1. The razor has a lifetime warranty. The company is not refunding any money so why do you need proof of purchase.
2.  You can return merchandise to Home Depot without a receipt. They give you a store credit.
3.  Craftsman tools have a lifetime warranty with or without a receipt. They fix the tool or give you a replacement.
4.  Most major paint manufacturers give a 15 or 20 year warranty. You don't need a receipt.

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#57

Posting Freak
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2020, 04:17 AM by Marko.)
To be clear, I did not say that Rockwell should or shouldn’t honour it’s guarantee in this case but merely suggested reasons why they may not.   I have had almost universally positive experiences with vendors and artisans in wet shaving and I continue to be impressed by the stand up quality of the people. My opinion is that Rockwell should have made this right. It’s too bad they haven’t. 

I’ve also experienced freezing issues with bottles breaking so I make a point of not ordering liquids in the winter months unless it has a high alcohol content. That split handle is interesting. I’m surprised that the moisture content of a laminated construction handle Was high enough to split it. Where I live the concern with wood items is that the climate here is so dry they split from shrinkage as the wood loses moisture.

Gopneg likes this post
#58
(07-26-2020, 04:16 AM)Marko Wrote: To be clear, I did not say that Rockwell should or shouldn’t honour it’s guarantee in this case but merely suggested reasons why they may not.   I have had almost universally positive experiences with vendors and artisans in wet shaving and I continue to be impressed by the stand up quality of the people. My opinion is that Rockwell should have made this right. It’s too bad they haven’t. 

I’ve also experienced freezing issues with bottles breaking so I make a point of not ordering liquids in the winter months unless it has a high alcohol content. That split handle is interesting. I’m surprised that the moisture content of a laminated construction handle Was high enough to split it. Where I live the concern with wood items is that the climate here is so dry they split from shrinkage as the wood loses moisture.

I can't find another reason for this crack. the package had no damage. I can assume that the sorting center is warm, and the mail car is cold. several freezing cycles - defrosting could also damage wood. the journey to my city is about 6-7 days. but it's not outside damage. the tree was torn from the inside.

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#59
(07-23-2020, 05:31 PM)Blackland Razors Wrote: I believe your story, but I’d like you to briefly consider what it’s like to be in Rockwell’s shoes. You have no proof of purchase, no receipt, and you don’t know the store you purchased it from. So from Rockwell’s perspective they have no way to be even remotely confident that the crack is a manufacture defect. This razor could be a year old and used hundreds of times and kicked across a parking lot for all they know. You’re putting them in the position of having to trust some random guy and believing that he just bought this (even though he can’t prove that) so they’ll have to replace it at their expense. There is always a certain amount of trust you have to place in customers, but this is definitely pushing the limits. If you could show that you just purchased the razor that would add a lot of credibility to your story and I imagine they would be much more likely to help you. I don’t think this is a case of bad service (except for the slow response times).

Not necessarily. It all depends how that return policy is worded. If they don't specifically say a proof of purchase or registration of the razor is needed to return a defective item then it is on them not the customer. I haven't read their return policy nor do I care to but that little detail makes or breaks this whole argument.

For Gopneg if you have the bank statement that should be enough to contact the retailer and get a new receipt printed up for the razor if proof of purchase is needed.
#60
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2020, 07:15 PM by BBS.)
To answer my own question.

https://support.rockwellrazors.com/porta...e-warranty

We offer free replacements, free returns and a 100% quality guarantee up to 60 days after purchasing the razor.


After this point, we're happy to help you get any replacement parts you need free of charge, we just ask that you cover the cost of shipping the parts ($7 flat rate to the United States, $10 flat rate in Canada).

Well Gopneg needs to provide proof of purchase to prove that it is within the 60 day timeframe or he is S.O.L.


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