PSA Re New King Cobra, Customer Service, Grooming Network, Inc. Classic Shaving

Thanks, Andrew, I certainly will. That is a LOT of page views!

Also, when I entered ' Grooming Network King Cobra ' , take a look at what showed up at the very top of the first page of Google:

This whole episode is just appalling. Where did PayPal ever get the idea that you altered the razor in any way? If Classic Shaving said so then doesn't PayPal have to hear your side? If Classic Shaving did not say that then why would PayPal presume you changed the razor in any way? Something is not right here and if PayPal refuses to do anything or even listen to you then I sincerely hope you have a satisfactory outcome through your credit card company.

Rather than emailing PayPal, I would contact them via telephone. Their response to you was, in my experience, atypical. Verbal communication (always sticking to the facts) is more powerful than the email choice. Good luck.

See this kind of mess makes me just trust the vendors I've used the most even more. ATT, Timeless, Maggard Razors and some of the artisans. Sounds to me like Classic Shaving has lost touch with the customer. Same thing happened to Mongoose didn't it? Where are they now? Spiraling the commode?

Hopefully Paypal will change their tune on this because they are your best hope.

They are obviously not at all focused on the customer, and are not trying to satisfy OP whatsoever. Caveat emptor, indeed.

That said, OP has no leg to stand on with PayPal or his bank YET. He claims product is defective, but has not returned it. Classic Shaving did imply that if they agreed it was defective, they would take corrective action (with the caveat that if they did not agree, they would return it to him).

Given their responses, OP needs to force a decision from them whether they agree it is defective or not. If they say it is not, he can then approach PayPal or his bank. The problem is that it is subjective--his word against theirs. But until he returns the razor, he is dead in the water. His claim of defect is not defensible yet.

They are obviously not at all focused on the customer, and are not trying to satisfy OP whatsoever. Caveat emptor, indeed.

That said, OP has no leg to stand on with PayPal or his bank YET. He claims product is defective, but has not returned it. Classic Shaving did imply that if they agreed it was defective, they would take corrective action (with the caveat that if they did not agree, they would return it to him).

Given their responses, OP needs to force a decision from them whether they agree it is defective or not. If they say it is not, he can then approach PayPal or his bank. The problem is that it is subjective--his word against theirs. But until he returns the razor, he is dead in the water. His claim of defect is not defensible yet.

Apparently you missed the part where THEY claimed that the OP altered the razor and it was not defective from the factory. In which case they've already decided they're not going to give a refund without even seeing the razor and inspecting it.

The Grooming Network is a blight on our hobby. They have long owned literally dozens of domains (straightrazor dot com is one, I don't want to link to it but if you want to take a look, go for it) from which they sell unusable straight razor shaped objects to unknowning newbs, many of whom are doubtless turned off by the experience and give up on wet shaving-- in way they are costing legitimate vendors additional business they'd otherwise receive. One of their hallmarks is the kind of customer service described in this thread.

More recently, they've bought out brands known within wet shaving. Not only Classic Shaving but also Hart Steel, Vintage Blades (which had already changed hands once before The Grooming Network got their hands on it), and probably others. You can see from this thread what they are doing with the goodwill those brands had built up.

There are other awful things I've heard about them doing that I won't detail here, as those tales do stray into rumor a bit-- I can't personally confirm them.

They are obviously not at all focused on the customer, and are not trying to satisfy OP whatsoever. Caveat emptor, indeed.

That said, OP has no leg to stand on with PayPal or his bank YET. He claims product is defective, but has not returned it. Classic Shaving did imply that if they agreed it was defective, they would take corrective action (with the caveat that if they did not agree, they would return it to him).

Given their responses, OP needs to force a decision from them whether they agree it is defective or not. If they say it is not, he can then approach PayPal or his bank. The problem is that it is subjective--his word against theirs. But until he returns the razor, he is dead in the water. His claim of defect is not defensible yet.

Apparently you missed the part where THEY claimed that the OP altered the razor and it was not defective from the factory. In which case they've already decided they're not going to give a refund without even seeing the razor and inspecting it.

No, I didn't miss that. But if Classic Shaving tells PayPal they got a report of the item being defective, yet the customer didn't ever send it back, there is no case.

Look, I'm not defending CS at all. But OP has to follow through on the process. Send it back and make them say they won't accept the return. You can't proceed based on what you THINK they will do (even though I agree that is what will probably happen).

Thank you gentlemen for all the support, I really appreciate it.

Gnocchi, as I replied to you before, the Grooming Network and Classic Shaving already told me they would not issue a refund, and would simply return the same razor to me. I was looking for an assurance from either PayPal or my bank that they would guarantee a refund before I sent it back. And, of course, I spoke with PayPal's customer service three times on the phone to attempt to resolve the issue.

The good news is, both my bank and PayPal came through.

The bank was easy. One phone call and they issued a conditional credit, asked me to send the razor back and provide a tracking number, which I did yesterday.

Before I called the bank, however, I wrote to PayPal's corporate offices. I got a very nice phone call this morning from someone in corporate who was extremely nice, told me that PayPal had reconsidered and would be issuing a refund, and apologized several times for the treatment I received from PayPal, not the least of which was their taking the side of the merchant who accused me both of 'buyer's remorse' and of 'altering the merchandise'.

Get this: Grooming Network/Classic Shaving asserted that I altered the razor by OPENING THE LATCH, thereby leaving the marks that appear on the razor's head.

Here's an excerpt from the follow up email I got from PayPal:

Dear Mr. Michael P.,

I want to thank you for speaking with me and to send you this follow up email regarding our telephone conversation.

As we discussed, I have initiated a credit in the amount of $267.98 USD back to your card ending in xxxx. You will see this credit in approximately 3-5 business days.

I absolutely can understand your concerns and frustrations with the outcome of this Significantly Not As Described claim…

I also want to commend you on your outstanding account history. I cannot thank you enough for your continued support of PayPal, and really want to thank you for the time you took to speak with me today.

I want to apologize again for the confusion and frustration you experienced. That is certainly not our intention, and I hope I was able to provide you with some clarification.

It took a letter to PayPal corporate, but they finally heard my side of the story and immediately acted.

The returned letter to Grooming Network/Classic Shaving contained a link to the posts I've made about it, and I want to thank Andrew for suggesting that, as perhaps they'll realize that being dismissive and lying about good customers (altering a razor, for example) can have consequences.

August 21, 2017

The Grooming Network
Classic Shaving
130 McGhee Rd.
Sandpoint, ID 83864

Re: King Cobra Razor; [Bank] Claim Number XXXXXXXXXXX

To Whom It May Concern:

Enclosed is the King Cobra razor ordered on July 5, 2017 and delivered to me on August 7, 2017. It is being returned in the exact, original and unaltered condition in which I received it, and in the original packaging (insofar as a piece of tissue paper could be construed as ‘packaging’).

I am sending you this razor pursuant to the instructions of the [Bank] Claims Division and a claim filed therewith.

It has been most unpleasant dealing with you. I am a good customer, owning an original Classic Cobra and King Cobra, and liking them so much that I ordered $500 worth of backups.

The King Cobra razor sent to me is not only defective it is, in my opinion and in the opinion of another shaving expert who examined the razor, hazardous to use given the force needed to open the latching mechanism.

I have let the shaving community know about this situation, both the customer service I received and the hazardous nature of the razor. You may read my posts here: https://damnfineshave.com/thread-psa-re-...ic-shaving (this is a Forum with 300,000 page views per month) and also here: [URL] (this is a Forum with a similar number of monthly page views).

Should those URLs be too unwieldy to enter, simply type in the following into Google: Grooming Network King Cobra, and that post will appear at the top of the first page of the Google search results.

Michael P

Most of all, I appreciate you here at DFS lending me your ear while I vented some frustration, and hope this may help those thinking of doing business with these folk make an informed decision.

Great news Michael P . Based on your experience I decided against ordering another newly released razor from Classic Shaving. I have more than enough razor anyway and am not inclined to do business with a company that mistreats a paying customer.