Preservatives - There's a Reason

I'd like to get a discussion going about the use of preservatives in shaving products - particularly soap.  There is a common perception that preservatives in cosmetic products (food too but thats a discussion for another day/forum) are nasty "chemicals" and should be avoided giving rise to "natural" products that purport to be preservative free.  The problem, is that cosmetic products, particularly those that are water based, are prone to contamination by bacteria, molds, and fungi.  This isn't just a "cosmetic" problem but also a health issue.  Preservatives are included in cosmetics to ensure consumer safety.  Given the number of bacteria that live in and on normal healthy humans and the naturally occurring molds and fungi just floating around in our environments, any preservative free products that come into our use can very quickly become bacteria laden particularly something like shaving soap that is open to the air, touched by our skin, fingers and shaving brushes.  I don't know about other shavers, but I have thrown out a significant number of tubs of shaving soap over the past year or two due to the growth of some really disgusting looking stuff on the surface.  I have no idea if the soaps became "infected" here or if it occurred at some point along the production - delivery chain. On the other hand, I have some soaps that I've had for years and lathered directly off the surface that continue to be fine.  I'm assuming its whether or not there are preservatives in the ingredients list that makes the difference.  I've started to scoop soap into the shaving bowl more now which I think can reduce but not eliminate the risk of contamination but I'll be honest, I don't like that technique as much as loading straight off the puck

In addition to the thoughts of the members, I'm interested in getting the opinions of some of the soap makers out there as to how they balance the challenges posed by a customer base much of which considers preservatives evil with the concern for product and consumer safety.  Not to mention protection of brand image.  I'm going to list (nudge) some artisan soap makers below that I'm hoping might have something to say on this topic.  I'm hoping to stimulate a productive and useful discussion that may also serve to educate many of us who's knowledge on this subject is limited to using and not making these products.  The soap makers I'm canvassing below are just off the top of my head and none of this has been planned.  

So what do you guys think? Barrister_N_Mann  Ryan @ Tallow + Steel  ezlovan  Macduffs_Soap_Co  dominicr  Dragonsbeard  whollykaw

Preservatives in soap - It's not like we're eating them. 
Besides, what are salt and pickle brine if not preservatives?
I'm thinking that many of the additives are there to maintain the appearance or texture, rather than any actual performance characteristic.

"Natural" - Like radon gas, Botulinum toxin, lead, cobra venom, urushiol (from poison ivy) or pufferfish? 
It's not automatically a positive feature for me.

Scooping out soap - I like to do that now because I can more easily control the amount that I use. Too often I wasn't using enough before. Typically a slightly rounded quarter teaspoon is ideal, and I smear it around the inside of the lather bowl.
In order to make it easier to scoop, I might add a few drops of tap water to a tub (of tallow-based soap) just to keep it from getting hard since it may be weeks between uses of that particular soap. 
I've not noticed any . . . weirdness as a result.

I'd like to get a discussion going about the use of preservatives in shaving products - particularly soap.  There is a common perception that preservatives in cosmetic products (food too but thats a discussion for another day/forum) are nasty "chemicals" and should be avoided giving rise to "natural" products that purport to be preservative free.  The problem, is that cosmetic products, particularly those that are water based, are prone to contamination by bacteria, molds, and fungi.  This isn't just a "cosmetic" problem but also a health issue.  Preservatives are included in cosmetics to ensure consumer safety.  Given the number of bacteria that live in and on normal healthy humans and the naturally occurring molds and fungi just floating around in our environments, any preservative free products that come into our use can very quickly become bacteria laden particularly something like shaving soap that is open to the air, touched by our skin, fingers and shaving brushes.  I don't know about other shavers, but I have thrown out a significant number of tubs of shaving soap over the past year or two due to the growth of some really disgusting looking stuff on the surface.  I have no idea if the soaps became "infected" here or if it occurred at some point along the production - delivery chain. On the other hand, I have some soaps that I've had for years and lathered directly off the surface that continue to be fine.  I'm assuming its whether or not there are preservatives in the ingredients list that makes the difference.  I've started to scoop soap into the shaving bowl more now which I think can reduce but not eliminate the risk of contamination but I'll be honest, I don't like that technique as much as loading straight off the puck

In addition to the thoughts of the members, I'm interested in getting the opinions of some of the soap makers out there as to how they balance the challenges posed by a customer base much of which considers preservatives evil with the concern for product and consumer safety.  Not to mention protection of brand image.  I'm going to list (nudge) some artisan soap makers below that I'm hoping might have something to say on this topic.  I'm hoping to stimulate a productive and useful discussion that may also serve to educate many of us who's knowledge on this subject is limited to using and not making these products.  The soap makers I'm canvassing below are just off the top of my head and none of this has been planned.  

So what do you guys think? Barrister_N_Mann  Ryan @ Tallow + Steel  ezlovan  Macduffs_Soap_Co  dominicr  Dragonsbeard  whollykaw

Agree 100%. Chemicals aren't really bad. They have to be examined.

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We don't use any preservatives in our shaving soap and have had zero reports or experience with any mold or fungal growth in our soaps. We do use preservatives in the balms and aftershave splash.
I believe it's because our soap is harder and has a lower water content than others that go bad.

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Define chemicals. Everything is a chemical formula.

I have a number of shaving soaps that I have had over 5 years. That does not include some hard soaps I have had for 25 years. I have never had one go bad. However, I always leave the top off the soap until any moisture added during the lathering process has had a chance to evaporate. If you put a soap away wet, it might get moldy..

Soaps also need to be stored in a cool place. Many soaps today contain some polyunsaturated oils like canola/rapeseed oil, sunflower oil, grapeseed oil, avocado oil, etc. These polyunsaturated oils are far more likely to oxidize (turn rancid) than saturated fats. The hotter the environment, the quicker the fats will oxidize.

I use a natural preservative in all my Shave soaps and Shave Cremes as a little extra insurance against misuse of the soap and for the obvious reasons of avoiding micro bacterial action that could occur when dealing with a product that contains water. I have not had one complaint of one of my soaps going bad so far. I’ll also add I have had quite a few soaps that don’t use a preservative in them that have had no issues.

As a wet shaving hobbyist for over 18 yrs now I’ve used 100’s of soaps and I’ve experienced soaps that have gone rancid, gotten orange spots, turned to gel or partially gel of have just gotten moldy. I’ve had 3 of 5 triple milled soaps I had get orange spots on them but I will say they were at least 3 or 4 years old. I also like others have mentioned have soaps that are very old and yes some of their scent strength has diminished somewhat throughout the years but their still looking great and work fine. I also suspect that some soaps that have had issues for reasons like batching an over super fatted soap and then poring and putting a lid on it the next day and shipping them out. So no curing whatsoever could definitely cause issues. 

Like I said I use a natural preservative in my shave soaps and Cremes as that’s what I choose to do for the reasons I mentioned above. There are non natural preservatives that are stronger and have scientific data to prove they work but some have been targeted as not being safe health wise like EDTA which I have to say, their are studies that prove consuming it can cause health  issues but in topical use it is found to be safe but it still has a online dark shadow that surrounds it but if you buy a soap that has it in it I wouldn’t worry as long as you don’t eat it lol.   I also started curing my soaps for a much longer time period than I did when I first started out but that’s a whole other subject. 

Here’s some photos ( one was sent to me ) of some soaps that have gel spots and one that turned moldy. Please don’t ask me what brand they are as I’m not here to discredit any brand name as that’s not me and I’m sure this is not the norm or they wouldn’t be in business for long.
 

Some hideous photos in this thread. It’s like the bizarrely grotesque pictures they put on cigarette packets (which are unrelated to any smoking-related maladies, but whatever, I try to collect the whole set).

Anyway, as another poster pointed out, everything in the world is ‘chemicals’. And everything in the world is ‘natural’, being a product of nature and its natural life forms. Concrete skyscrapers are made by humans by processing materials found on our planet, and this is no different from a termite mound or a bee hive made using materials they process. Why is nylon thought to be ‘artificial’ but a spider’s web or a moth larva’s silk are called ‘natural’? Honey is manufactured by bees, just as humans make any other foodstuff that some people like to call ‘artificial’. And don’t forget that your pet dog is man-made, just as the cows and horses and flowers and wheat and grass are - from centuries of selective breeding by humans to create new species of animals and plants that we prefer to those that we originally found on the planet. And at this point there are very few wild animals or plants left in the world, except perhaps for insects which are so numerous that they are the most successful life forms on this planet, which humans also inhabit.

There is no line that can reasonably be drawn between the natural and the artificial. We seem to forget that humans are as much a part of nature as any other animal, and therefore everything that man makes comes from nature.

So we should use preservatives in soaps. It’s better, and there is no reason not to.

I already work in an industry where I’m exposed to all manner of carcinogenic and nerve disrupting chemicals so I attempt to mitigate further exposure where I’m able. Big thanks to Frank for making the best performing soaps and for doing so without the use of such chemicals.

Oftentimes, dilution is the solution to pollution. But for those of us who’d rather not test the long term effects of such exposure, I’ll play it safe and stick with Frank!

I already work in an industry where I’m exposed to all manner of carcinogenic and nerve disrupting chemicals so I attempt to mitigate further exposure where I’m able. Big thanks to Frank for making the best performing soaps and for doing so without the use of such chemicals.

Oftentimes, dilution is the solution to pollution. But for those of us who’d rather not test the long term effects of such exposure, I’ll play it safe and stick with Frank!

Thank you for the kind and encouraging words. I’m just doing my thing and trying to stay in my own lane. 

You make a good point about toxic chemicals and my approach along with a lot of other soap makers I know is to use ingredients that have a proven history along with some scientific data to back them up that are topically and vaporously safe for humans. 

Nature gives us many amazing gifts and it’s up to us what we create with them.  I mean heroin is made from morphine which is a natural substance that comes from the poppy plant. It’s dangerous and in fact we have an opioid crisis going on right now. I surely wouldn’t want to use gasoline as an aftershave and it comes also from nature as well but I think we are talking about preservatives in Shave soap making and their are many preservatives to choose from. It’s up to the soap maker as to whether or not to use them and which ones to use if they do. 

The photos I provided were not intended to gross anyone out but rather show what can happen in rare cases when there’s a QC issue, or the environment the soap is exposed to such as extreme heat or a packaging that’s not friendly to some of the ingredients or simple  misuse of a particular soap that can’t tolerate that for to long. 

That’s about all I have to say on the subject. Maybe some other soap makers who have experience in this subject can chime in. I have soap to make! Lol 

Enjoy your Sundays!