Podcasts - Lather Talk and The Shaving Tulsan

Unethical does not = illegal.  


I will share something that is quite frankly brutally honest, but nonetheless IMO true. DFS has become a haven for many, for lack of a better word, snobs. Men whom seem to only derive wet shaving pleasure from not only owning the most exclusive & expensive wares, but use the forum merely as a flagrant display of opulence. With such comes the "bottom feeders" who cater to those types by peddling irresistible items that fuel their vanity. It's a symbiotic, as well as parasitic, relationship that keeps both parties happy. The BST reads like a confessional for compulsive shoppers with far more dollars than sense. In a way it's sad. It appears some really don't have what we call a "life". 


That said, I merely take what I want by reading/sharing that which interests me on the forum and try to leave the rest be, for to "save" the patient would require euthanization. I peruse other forums where most are more down to Earth and names such as Wolfman are never used. Just my 2 cents.

I own the site and use a $10 razorock synthetic brush and a blackbird sb razor almost every time I shave.

sure, there are those that have higher end gear and that's fine, but there are plenty of us who get on just fine using what we have without it being the super high end stuff...

I personally don't chase any razor, brush, soaps or aftershave drops whatsoever - I just have better things to do with my time. that said though, it doesn't bother me in the least bit if someone else spends the time doing it.

Why would anyone sell something on the open market for less than its market value?

I's like to hear the opinions of other members on this issue.

One more time for the people in the back..

There are wetshaving communities.  There is no single grand unified wetshaving community.  There are wetshaving marketplaces.  There is no universal set of guidelines for operating a wetshaving marketplace.  There are communities without marketplaces (the PNW Wetshavers Facebook group) and marketplaces without communities (eBay).  There are also places where communities and marketplaces overlap (DFS, r/Wetshaving).  Where marketplaces and communities overlap, community norms govern behavior in the marketplace, not the other way around.

DFS and r/Wetshaving have different norms governing their respective marketplaces.  To the extend that DFS is a community (I know DFS members disagree on that point), community norms skew more toward an unconstrained free market.  Over on r/Wetshaving, community norms are more focused on reinforcing generosity and developing bonds of friendship and goodwill.  Neither approach is inherently more or less moral, more or less ethical, better or worse.  They are what they are and they are table stakes for participation in those two communities.

If you want to squat on drops in order to flip stuff for a profit, you will be drummed right out of r/Wetshaving because that kind of behavior undermines the community's perception of you as a generous person of goodwill (and, let's be honest, there's nothing generous about that behavior).  If you show up on DFS with that rare item from last week's drop at a 50% markup over what the artisan was charging, you're good to go, good luck with the sale.

Where things go wrong is when you try to impose one community's norms on another community.  DFS isn't r/Wetshaving and r/Wetshaving isn't SGR$ and SGR$ isn't TSN.  Don't get your underwear in a twist just because behavior that's fine in one community gets you banned in another.  Also, don't get all worked up because behavior that would get you banned in one community is fine in another.  Look at your map, know which community you're in, and behave accordingly.

All that said, a large part of my enjoyment of shaving as a hobby comes from being part of a friendly community of generous people who aren't out to make a buck off of their fellow community members.  Thus, I'm more on the anti-flipping side and I'll blacklist any mofo I see who's drop-camping just to flip for a profit.  I've got a bit more sympathy for folks who are passing on their own used gear at a markup when said gear has gone up in value during their period of use.  And if I caught someone abusing the generosity of one of my communities to obtain rare gear at below-market prices in order to resell at a profit on other communities, you better believe I'm going to rain some hellfire on them.

Also, my favorite podcast is Behind The Bastards.  Absolute gold.

Why would anyone sell something on the open market for less than its market value?

I's like to hear the opinions of other members on this issue.

One more time for the people in the back..

There are wetshaving communities.  There is no single grand unified wetshaving community.  There are wetshaving marketplaces.  There is no universal set of guidelines for operating a wetshaving marketplace.  There are communities without marketplaces (the PNW Wetshavers Facebook group) and marketplaces without communities (eBay).  There are also places where communities and marketplaces overlap (DFS, r/Wetshaving).  Where marketplaces and communities overlap, community norms govern behavior in the marketplace, not the other way around.

DFS and r/Wetshaving have different norms governing their respective marketplaces.  To the extend that DFS is a community (I know DFS members disagree on that point), community norms skew more toward an unconstrained free market.  Over on r/Wetshaving, community norms are more focused on reinforcing generosity and developing bonds of friendship and goodwill.  Neither approach is inherently more or less moral, more or less ethical, better or worse.  They are what they are and they are table stakes for participation in those two communities.

If you want to squat on drops in order to flip stuff for a profit, you will be drummed right out of r/Wetshaving because that kind of behavior undermines the community's perception of you as a generous person of goodwill (and, let's be honest, there's nothing generous about that behavior).  If you show up on DFS with that rare item from last week's drop at a 50% markup over what the artisan was charging, you're good to go, good luck with the sale.

Where things go wrong is when you try to impose one community's norms on another community.  DFS isn't r/Wetshaving and r/Wetshaving isn't SGR$ and SGR$ isn't TSN.  Don't get your underwear in a twist just because behavior that's fine in one community gets you banned in another.  Also, don't get all worked up because behavior that would get you banned in one community is fine in another.  Look at your map, know which community you're in, and behave accordingly.

All that said, a large part of my enjoyment of shaving as a hobby comes from being part of a friendly community of generous people who aren't out to make a buck off of their fellow community members.  Thus, I'm more on the anti-flipping side and I'll blacklist any mofo I see who's drop-camping just to flip for a profit.  I've got a bit more sympathy for folks who are passing on their own used gear at a markup when said gear has gone up in value during their period of use.  And if I caught someone abusing the generosity of one of my communities to obtain rare gear at below-market prices in order to resell at a profit on other communities, you better believe I'm going to rain some hellfire on them.

Also, my favorite podcast is Behind The Bastards.  Absolute gold.

I don't entirely agree with this. there are lots of us on here who sell items on the DFS bst for a loss, even sometimes at a substantial loss.

I don't really chase anything either don't own that much gear and have been shaving with mostly inexpensive straights for 25 years or so but I do kind of see some of Mr. BP's maybe worded differently but it's just shaving. I like supporting certain soap makers for my own reasons and while it's not so much here and maybe it's unintentional I do roll my eyes with some guys going on about certain things but If it doesn't interest me I don't need to read it. All are welcome it's just a hobby.

As for the high priced gear I just recently finished the Wolfman thread. A few skirmishes a little repetitive but I quite enjoyed it. It's great to see some have found there dream razor and while it may be a little more than I would like to spend who knows life is short.

We all our own comfort level for how much we post but I do applaud BP for at least trying to get some discussions going.

The Shaving Tulsan does seem to have Artisan SOTD pics on his Instagram. He did give us a nice review back in October of 2019. However, I did have to send it to him for FREE. I'm thinking we done with that.

Apparently the Zingari Man experience has changed him and I think that was since he reviewed you guys.  I'm sure there are a lot of guys out there who will review your stuff if you send it to them for free but there has always been the perception that if the reviewer got it for free he won't be as objective as he otherwise might be if he spent his own money.  I think there is probably a phase in every artisan's growth curve where you have to give away product just to try to get some profile, maybe samples at a shave meet or maybe to a social media reviewer but pretty quickly you're going to have to move to the product for money model.  Yeah, I was a bit surprised at the Tulsan's attitude, I made myself listen to the whole podcast but I'm not looking for any more, he was so down on artisan shave products generally.  Thats fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion but if you're doing a wet shaving podcast and you're down on the best part of shaving, IMO, then why are you even doing it?  I guess I'm entitled to not listen to him.

Yea, we’re VERY limited on the freebies for “reviewers”.
I agree on his listeners. I’m betting that people into shaving to a degree that they will actually listen to a podcast about it aren’t really interested in hearing about Gillette’s latest cream or Williams lathering tricks.


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I don't disagree with you BourbonInExile but DFS isn't exclusively a BST forum and I've never bought or sold a single item on any forum - I've picked up stuff on eBay but that's hardly a "community".  I enjoy the discussion and camaraderie on DFS and agree that that is an important part of it.  When I first started out a few years back there weren't that many forums around and the big one of the day was embroiled in more drama than I care for which is why I ended up at DFS.  I rarely ever check out any other forums and therefore can't comment on them in any intelligent or informed way.  I like it here, I don't think we're snobs, I like to think we're inclusive.

...As for the high priced gear I just recently finished the Wolfman thread.  A few skirmishes a little repetitive but I quite enjoyed it...

You should get some type of award for wading through that "orgy" of oneupmanship!!       

...As for the high priced gear I just recently finished the Wolfman thread.  A few skirmishes a little repetitive but I quite enjoyed it...

You should get some type of award for wading through that "orgy" of oneupmanship!!       

lol. Well to be honest I've been home all week and I'm a little bored. I've since edited but I had a little ramble on cell phones as well.

I don't know if I'd call it oneupmanship - a Wolfman razor is a pretty cool razor and as everyone knows, a bit of a challenge to acquire and a shaving forum is the only place where anyone else could possibly care about your razor or your shave or any of this stuff.  Maybe your wife or girlfriend appreciates your smooth mug after a shave but she really doesn't care about your razor.  A shaving forum is like a show and shine for car enthusiasts only its about shaving and its online, people are showing off their stuff and admiring other people's stuff.  Maybe you're inspired to get some of that stuff for yourself, and of course, there's lots of related stuff for sale.  People go to the shows to look at stuff and to show off their stuff, nobody goes to roll their eyes and criticize others for their self-indulgent oneupmanship for spending money on such nice cars.  Obviously that's not everybody's thing and if it isn't you just don't go.

...As for the high priced gear I just recently finished the Wolfman thread.  A few skirmishes a little repetitive but I quite enjoyed it...

You should get some type of award for wading through that "orgy" of oneupmanship!!       

lol.  Well to be honest I've been home all week and I'm a little bored.  I've since edited but I had a little ramble on cell phones as well.

If you have a little time for reading, I highly recommend this thread posted by churchilllafemme   Its excellent

https://damnfineshave.com/thread-fragrance-terms