Gel vs Natural Tip Badger.

Being fairly unknowledgable regarding brushes and knots generally defer to those with more experience and expertise. But since you made reference, have come to many of the same conclusions as the avowed experts as my experience has increased. Specifically, regarding the higher loft and softer knots more readily producing lather, have indeed found this the case for all types of soaps and cremes. Will readily admit, for application of the bowl generated lather to the face, strongly prefer brushes of density and backbone albeit sans scritch.  So this not a question based on bias towards high loft soft knots.  However, my experience does comport with the prevailing opinion whether triple milled French soap or soft Brit cremes

Thanks Lipripper660  for explaining that process.  I've got a couple of Gel tip badgers and I like them.  I'm not sure I'd say they were my favourites though.  When I listened to the Lather Talk podcast featuring an interview with Neil Breed founder of Heritage Collection Shaving, he talked about using the treated Omega boar knot that is found on the Omega 10098.  It has gel and hooked tips.  So I bought a 10098 to see how good it was - its cheap so that's good.  Well its smell is beyond awful and its a different, more chemical smell from other boars or badgers I've had.  Its actually nauseating for me.   Its gradually coming around but I'm restricting it to palm lathering and not using it to shave until its sufficiently deodorized.  I never noticed this odour issue with gel badgers so I'm thinking the peroxide interacts differently with boar bristles.

I will try a bleached boar one day but suspect that I’ll like the pristine pig vs the salon tipped pig.  Who knows.  I’m lucky in that I like the pig and badger funk but if I’m hearing you, you are saying the bleached boar smells different than a natural boar?

Yes, that's what I was saying - I don't have a problem with the short-lived animal funk in a normal badger or boar brush but this Omega 10098 treated boar has a really unpleasant, chemical smell in addition to the animal funk.  Not nice and more persistent.  I'll get it where I can use it but its taking me more time than normal.

Thanks for the information ChiefBroom , I'd never heard that badger bristle shouldn't be exposed to hot water?  Is warm water OK?

I once destroyed a e-Shave silver tip brush with hot water - it was early in my journey and I didn't know much.  I had a dirty bird scuttle that I thought would give me warmer lather if I soaked it in boiling water fresh out of the kettle and then filled the reservoir with fresh boiled water to lather.  I did not soak the brush in that water but jus the exposure to high temperature that the scuttle was at caused the knot to fall apart.  Lesson learned.  The lather was crap too.  Heat isnt a friend of brush or lather.  Ive been soaking my brushes in war m water before use, tepid but I think I'll try using cold water and see if it makes any difference. I'm sure it will be better for the brushes.

Thanks,

Mark

Being fairly unknowledgable regarding brushes and knots generally defer to those with more experience and expertise. But since you made reference, have come to many of the same conclusions as the avowed experts as my experience has increased. Specifically, regarding the higher loft and softer knots more readily producing lather, have indeed found this the case for all types of soaps and cremes. Will readily admit, for application of the bowl generated lather to the face, strongly prefer brushes of density and backbone albeit sans scritch.  So this not a question based on bias towards high loft soft knots.  However, my experience does comport with the prevailing opinion whether triple milled French soap or soft Brit cremes

I probably tend to be less deferential. That doesn't mean I broadly reject the views and opinions others. I've just learned that it works best (and is more fun) when I figure these things out for myself. 

But I do enjoy thoughtful and substantive discussion about wet-shaving, including others' experiences, preferences, and related opinions. A problem, however, that in my view generally plagues such discussion is fuzziness resulting from participants' different frames of reference. To point back to the topic of this tread, that problems is almost always present in discussions of gel-tipped hair. I don't know that there is a good fix for it. But I think it's good to keep in mind.

Thanks for the information ChiefBroom , I'd never heard that badger bristle shouldn't be exposed to hot water?  Is warm water OK?

I once destroyed a e-Shave silver tip brush with hot water - it was early in my journey and I didn't know much.  I had a dirty bird scuttle that I thought would give me warmer lather if I soaked it in boiling water fresh out of the kettle and then filled the reservoir with fresh boiled water to lather.  I did not soak the brush in that water but jus the exposure to high temperature that the scuttle was at caused the knot to fall apart.  Lesson learned.  The lather was crap too.  Heat isnt a friend of brush or lather.  Ive been soaking my brushes in war m water before use, tepid but I think I'll try using cold water and see if it makes any difference. I'm sure it will be better for the brushes.

Thanks,

Mark

I don't worry about warm water. For sure no scalding hot water, and I try to stay well on the safe side of that. 

If I wouldn't let my my three-year-old granddaughter get in a tub-full of it, I wouldn't use it on a badger brush.

I like variety and have quite a few different 2-Band knots. However, for whatever reason, I seem to enjoy Shavemac's D01 2-Band, which seems to be untreated, but that is just a presumption.

For the most part, overwhelmingly so, everything you have stated makes sense. To be quite honest, gel tips are a matter of ambivalence to my perspective, finding density and backbone of much greater importance.  Have long had a nagging suspicion that creating gel types had a deleterious impact on longevity and integrity although without any empirical evidence to support the belief.  But it has been proffered by cognoscenti and supported by experience that high loft soft brushes are efficient lathering tools.

What am asking is, based on your substantial experience and professional expertise, presuming what others claim is true regarding lathering, is there an explanation you can offer as to why that may be the case irrespective of your preference in knots?

For the most part, overwhelmingly so, everything you have stated makes sense. To be quite honest, gel tips are a matter of ambivalence to my perspective, finding density and backbone of much greater importance.  Have long had a nagging suspicion that creating gel types had a deleterious impact on longevity and integrity although without any empirical evidence to support the belief.  But it has been proffered by cognoscenti and supported by experience that high loft soft brushes are efficient lathering tools.

I don't know what you mean by "high loft". Loft can be measured, but it's also relative, and there are other factors such as resilience and density that affect lathering efficiency. In my experience, all else being more or less equal, there's a tipping point. Higher loft doesn't unqualifiedly yield higher efficiency. Neither does more (or less) density. This comes back to establishing frames of reference.

As for invoking the expertise of unnamed cognoscenti, that's largely meaningless to me.

Anyhow, the topic of this thread is gel vs natural-tip badger. And I personally do not believe that naturally (i.e., that hasn't been exposed to brightening agents) white-tipped hair of the type used to make currently available two-band badger-hair knots exists. I could be wrong, but my belief is based on more than presumption.

Thanks for the information ChiefBroom , I'd never heard that badger bristle shouldn't be exposed to hot water?  Is warm water OK?

I once destroyed a e-Shave silver tip brush with hot water - it was early in my journey and I didn't know much.  I had a dirty bird scuttle that I thought would give me warmer lather if I soaked it in boiling water fresh out of the kettle and then filled the reservoir with fresh boiled water to lather.  I did not soak the brush in that water but jus the exposure to high temperature that the scuttle was at caused the knot to fall apart.  Lesson learned.  The lather was crap too.  Heat isnt a friend of brush or lather.  Ive been soaking my brushes in war m water before use, tepid but I think I'll try using cold water and see if it makes any difference. I'm sure it will be better for the brushes.

Thanks,

Mark

A good rule of thumb I use is: if it’s too hot for your skin, it’s too hot for the brush.

To be quite honest, gel tips are a matter of ambivalence to my perspective, finding density and backbone of much greater importance.

+1

BTW, people with skin disease can have issues with natural badger.
One of the reasons of my love for new synths on the super thin side.

I personally do not believe that naturally (i.e., that hasn't been exposed to brightening agents) white-tipped hair of the type used to make currently available two-band badger-hair knots exists. I could be wrong, but my belief is based on more than presumption.

+1

The hair performs a function in the physiology of the animal.
This is why different species of badgers (2-band vs 3-band) offer such different performances.
In any case, the points are not hooked in nature.
Otherwise they could not guarantee protection from the natural environment.