Flashlights

Well, yes, if someone is incredibly stupid LI-Ion cells can be abused and short out and create all sorts of problems. But if quality cells are used and intelligence is employed they are quite safe.

Sometimes it is due to manufacturing defects, such as in the recent Samsung Galaxy Note 7 debacle. How are the average Joe and Jane to know which cells are quality and which are not? You might have that knowledge, along with other flashlight enthusiasts and those who work with Li-Ion batteries in some way. To most people a battery is just a battery, of which there are two varieties: rechargeable and non-rechargeable. Hopefully, recent news reports will encourage people to educate themselves a little more.

But that requires a modicum of intelligence and knowledge. Folks without that probably shouldn't use Li-Ion cells. Yes, we read about those folks who over discharge and over charge their garbage Chinese cells that are put into toys for children and used in series. That's a bomb waiting to happen.

Ok, so what is over-discharging and over-charging? A battery is supposed to be used until it is dead, popped in the battery charger until the charging LED goes off, and then it is back into the toy, flashlight, etc., right? At least that is the way a lot of people think. Batteries need to be as idiot-proof as possible, because a lot of people using them are idiots.

Good article. There is another extremely promising Li-Ion technology using polymers.

Here is an article about that technology, in case you are interested: http://bit.ly/2rQYGSJ. It sounds like you probably know most of what is in the article, but an interesting piece nonetheless.

For the Manker MK41HD I've absolutely moved to Pro Eneloop NiMh cells.

Wow, that is a nice flashlight! I never heard of that brand before.

Tbone, I've given all of the relevant links and have written much (all?) of the answers to what you ask in the thread. It's up to folks to use what I supplied to gain the knowledge about cells and such or leave them alone. Those who don't want to do that should stick to NiMh cells. The Pro Eneloops are good and there are lights that can use them. But they're relatively small lights that use the AA form factor cells. The Manker MK41 is a very nice light that uses them (4). It has a throw of at least 100 yards with Eneloops. Due to leakage I don't suggest AA alkalines unless it's an emergency, but Lithium AAs are fine. The Manker E11 is another light that uses Eneloops and it has a very reasonable output with them, but it's a pocket light. They're both quite impressive for their size.

The short story on discharging and charging is to use protected cells and a good quality charger. A good charger doesn't need to be expensive. Those make Li-Ions foolproof, but protected cells will give no warning, they just shut off when the voltage gets too low, to protect the cell. If in doubt, charge the cell. Low discharge and recharge is much better than taking a cell down to where it cuts out to save itself.

Right now I'm only buying lights that use AAs, NiMh, and Li-Ions. I want the versatility. Other than the Q8 that is. That's just too fantastic a light to pass up.

You'd need to research other lights; again, The Budget Light Forum is the place for that unless you want expensive lights. You can also ask questions there, I did and it's expected. Don't be surprised if a link is supplied in response. Pretty much all that can be asked has already been answered and it's time consuming to rewrite it so a link works best.

More delays with the Q8, but that's to be expected since it's a brand new design. I'm keeping my order in for it however. I also ordered some lights that don't take any type of AA cell. I knew that wouldn't last long.

In the meantime in order to get some experience with this type of light (soda can or sky ray king) I bought a cheap SRK knockoff months back ($20). Yeah, it's cheap in features too. But it works and it is bright.

Yet more Q8 delays and I bought a M43 Meteor. It's my most expensive light to date, but the price dropped $50 and I couldn't say no to it anymore. The specs say that using high quality cells it'll put out over 6000 lumens. But possibly it's best attribute is the small size; under 4" long and still a soda can light. The head is roughly 2 1/2" in diameter and the body is under 2" in diameter. The design is a bit dated today and the assumption is that it will be "obsolete" in a short time, but the performance won't get worse and the size won't get bigger with the one I bought at discount. I don't need cutting edge technology in a commercial light since I get that with the BLF edition lights. If we get many more Q8 delays I'll be in the poorhouse. :-)
http://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-418650-...p-864.html

The BLF has a few more lights in the design stages. One is a "giga thrower" that will use 8 cells and have a huge head to maximize throw. I'm not certain but I think it will be the most expensive light the BLF has ever made at over $100. It will be a massive light and will be designed for slung carry due to the size and weight. I'm betting it will throw a tight beam well beyond 1500 meters. What will I use mine for? I have no idea but it's too good to pass up. It'll also have huge runtime and plenty of metal for heat sinking. It's unknown how many lumens it'll have but for a thrower it's not raw lumens but the way those lumens are handled that counts.

The BLF just doesn't design ordinary lights. They have another small light with 3 high performance LEDs. Yet another Ferrari type of light (or dragster). Lots of output in a small frame with the attendant heat and shortish runtime on full output but it'll have a decent size cell and still keep the light small.

Oh, the Manker MK41... I've been using it for awhile now with AA Eneloops. They have none of the bad press of Li-Ion cells. It's a very impressive light for it's size for folks who want a high performance light and not get into Li-Ion. Output is high, the throw is good, and the cells last a long time between charges. Same as any other light, the longer it's used at full output the shorter the runtime. One can't draw high current and have cells stay charged. I have charged my cells just once in all this time and they didn't really need charging. It's an impressive little light. I use mine multiple times every night and for full output a few times briefly each night.

OK, the M43 Meteor came in. Due to it's TIR lens (no reflector) it's shorter by approx' 1/4" than the Manker MK41 with it's shorter cells. The M43 is fatter (dimensions above), the MK41 is approx' 1 11/16" in diameter. I'm looking forward to darkness tonight, but this light has insane output. The head begins to get very noticeably warm, not hot, in 10 seconds on Turbo. Of course it's substantially heavier. Fit and finish is nicely done. The lanyard is IMO designed to break and drop the light, so as I mostly always do I'm making my own. It comes with a very usable pouch. It's a nice light. Did I mention how small it is for the insane output?

One requirement is that the 4 cells must be high quality cells that are matched. Whenever a light uses more than one cell that''s a really good idea. Less so with a light that uses cells in parallel as the Meteor does, but it's still a very good idea. This might not be a good first light for someone unless they don't mind learning. It'll also run on fewer than 4 cells but I'd be very cautious about using one cell in it though at high output levels. It won't do it is one reason. Another is that the spring under the cell can get hot and lose it's springiness. It's just better anyway to spread the load out through 4 springs and cells..

So I played with the M43 Meteor last night. It has 3 possible modes.

Mode 1 which is pretty basic with these output levels: lo, hi, turbo.
Mode 2 which allows for some user selected output levels with it's 4 outputs, lo, med, hi and turbo
Mode 3 which has the same 4 levels as mode 2 the only one of which can't be modified, that one being turbo. I selected to use mode 3 due to it's flexibility.

The mode selection can be changed at any time.

I have lo set to a very dim setting. Med' a bit brighter, hi brighter yet, and turbo can't be changed. I like the ramped brightnesses the way I have. Or, if it wanted the first setting to be hi and ramp down I could do that. As it is now a click on the switch takes me to lo. Click and a slow click takes me to med, and 2 fast clicks takes me to hi.

In any mode selection click and hold takes one to turbo for as long as the button is held. In mode 3 a single long click allows for turbo until it's undone with a fast click. Turbo has a hi temp ramp down to protect the light. Once it starts to ramp down, and that happens fairly rapidly, it can be overridden by pressing and holding the button. That changes the ramp down to 70°C from 50°C.

It has the same strobe, beacon, yada yada modes that almost all LED lights come with, but they are set aside with special blink codes to access them. The button light can also be turned off and the button light has a beacon mode to help find it in the dark. The button light detects the charge left in the cell by changing color. From full to recharge (empty), blue, green, red. I assume that the light will turn off when the cells are depleted and at the point where any further discharge will damage them.

This light will drain cells extremely rapidly on Turbo. That happens in minutes to go from blue indication to green. But I may have mentioned the huge current this light draws from the cells so it's no wonder that the cells drain so fast. There is a note in the instructions that comes with the light to use high drain cells in it. I haven't gone into the red yet so I don't know how quickly that happens.

The light is all flood and has no hotspot to produce even a small amount of throw. Despite that the light easily reaches out to 100 yards from sheer brute force lumens. Anything closer seeks cover so as not to begin to burn. This is one very bright light. I always try to "become the perp" when I test a light and anything over my lo setting is blinding with this light. Holding it and having them try to look into it is like looking into a shield of light in front of you. There is absolutely no way that anyone will be looking into this wall of light unless they're looking through welding glass.

Some gripes. All larger flood lights should have provisions for slung carry. When working outside for close in work a flood light is what one uses, and when working 2 hands are required. This light must be hand carried reducing the number of available hands by 50%. My other gripe is the BS wrist lanyard that it comes with, but Noctigon isn't alone there, it's ubiquitous. It's pretty much there to give one misplaced confidence that the lanyard will keep the light safe. The weak part of the lanyard is the light monofiliment covered by black thread that connects to the light. It will break if one looks at it funny and there goes an expensive light. I've cannibalized a lanyard from a Sunlight SL6 diving light and put it on the Meteor. But I also have been known to make my own lanyards with a link that breaks at 50#. I need to make more of those.

It comes with a pretty decent nylon case. Just be sure that the button on the light is to the side or the light turns on when the velcro is sealed.

Another gripe that others have is the UI. It's needlessly complex so they say. I understand what Noctigon was trying to do and they succeeded, but the result has confused lots of users. The UI (user interface) on this light is like no other that I have and takes some getting used to. Once I'm accustomed to it no doubt I'll set it to the side because the BLF Q8 will be here and I'll forget everything I learned about this UI over time. If I stayed with this light the UI would become 2nd nature to me.

The BLF (Budget Light Forum) Q8 is probably close to release, but they're working on other interesting lights as well at the same time. I will never buy anything other than a "dragster" light anymore. I simply have enough of the other "consumer lights" that few people other than the cognoscenti know about.

One is the Giga Thrower (GT). Its absolutely huge with a girth similar to the Q8, but it holds 2 cartridges of 4 18650 cells for a massive runtime. The head will be close to 5" in diameter to concentrate the 2500 (give or take- the BLF always estimates down) lumens into a massive "reach out and touch" type of light. Did I mention how massive this light will be? But due to the mass it will probably be able to run at max' output until the cells die and never overheat.

The other light that interested me is the FW3A. It's a 3 LED light with a conservative 2500 lumen output in a smaller package than the C8 that I suggested to Phil. Yes, it will heat up very rapidly. But that output doesn't need to always be used. It'll use Narsil, the program that is used with the Q8, so any output from starlight to fry the eyeballs is possible. This will be an easily handheld light using one cell. It gets the output due to (again) LiIon cell technology. Will it take the place of the modded C8 that I had built for me? Time will tell, I doubt it since it will probably be a flooder and that C8 has huge throw with much less amp draw. But it could take the place of another FET circuitry flooder. Again, time will tell. The light has yet to be produced.

But back to the Meteor.... I have come to grips with the UI and it's not difficult once one figures it out. The impediment was me. I still think that it needs a provision for slung carry for my uses. For others the small size and HUGE output for hand carry (brand x wrist lanyard, not the supplied one) make it a wonderful light. Mine came programmed for Mode 1 (simple mode) But I strongly suggest the mode 3 UI (user interface) to tailor it for your use. Mine is set to minimum output for setting 1, a bit higher for #2 output, high is brighter yet, and then there's turbo which is carved in stone. This is all done by eyeball and what makes you happy. It could just as easily be set to high, low, low medium, turbo. I don't know why one would do that, but it could be done. It's a nice light with huge output. When I take the dogs out for their final run of the night I have the light on low medium (#2) and a press of the switch takes me to turbo to light everything brightly out to the limits of my visible range, 100 yards. Release the switch and I'm back to setting 2. I really like this light a lot.

Still on the subject of the M43.

To give an idea of how much energy Li-Ion cells contain... Near as I can document I got the light a few days before 6/24. I used it a bunch in the first days esp' on turbo mode. Then I charged the cells and just used the light. It got use every night, lots on moonlight mode, quite a bit on medium output and a few times for about 1 minute each night as I flooded the backyard with light to check for porcupines and skunks before taking the dogs out. Last Monday I charged the cells and they had barely been used according to their voltage. I don't know if I previously wrote it, but I think I figured out (or did I read it?) that on moonlight mode (400mw current draw) which is plenty of light for many uses, it will run for 30 hours conservatively since the cells store more energy than I used for my calculation. Of course much less as the output goes up and the efficiency of the LEDs go down.

I'm still liking this small fat light.

Thanks, Brian.  I've joined and asked for one of the flashlights.  It sounds like it will be a lot of fun to play with, as well as being useful in emergencies.

John, the go ahead has been given for production, so this is a heads up. It's going to happen very soon. It appears all the bugs have been worked out and the designers and the manufacturer are as happy as they ever will be. It should be one heck of a light.

Thanks, Brian.  I've joined and asked for one of the flashlights.  It sounds like it will be a lot of fun to play with, as well as being useful in emergencies.

John, the go ahead has been given for production, so this is a heads up. It's going to happen very soon. It appears all the bugs have been worked out and the designers and the manufacturer are as happy as they ever will be. It should be one heck of a light.

Great, thanks, Brian.

John, I don't know if you've been keeping up on the BLF and I don't know what you need for lights (if any more lights at all). Please forgive me if I tell you things you know or aren't interested in. But I want to keep you safe and make sure you have the knowledge for that. The Q8 isn't really a beginners light. I'll get to that in a bit even if it isn't obvious.

The BLF is working on a massive "Giga thrower" (GT) that will throw a beam 2 km. It's a massive 2500ish lumen light with huge runtime and due to it's size and mass will never overheat when used at max' output until the cells are "dead". It's designed to be slung and looks like an overgrown "normal" flashlight with a 5" reflector. It'll use either 4 or 8 18650 cells.Then there is another project of a 3 LED, one cell, easily pocketable light with 2500 lumens output. It's another "dragster" light with huge output (if that's selected) for a short time, with the heat problems that comes with that in a small light (no mass to soak up and dissipate the heat), or a more modest output with no heat concerns. For it's size it's a huge output light and it's why I call the type "dragster" lights. They can only do max' output for a short time; like the Q8, the Meteor, or any other of the lights I've been buying lately.

FWIW, I no longer buy standard off the shelf lights. My last was the Meteor M43 and while it was off the shelf nothing about it is at all standard. Obviously the Q8 is neither a standard or an off the shelf light since it was designed by enthusiasts from the ground up for other enthusiasts. Everything about it is a thorobred.

I'm curious to know your reaction when your Q8 arrives, but you aren't locked into the purchase.

Did you take advantage of the group purchase of cells when it was made available? If not, the seller might make cells available with the light for a better than standard price, or not. The Q8 will need specific cells for best runtime or output. But it'll work with any 4 matched cells (same type cells [brand, model, lot] the same history of charging, discharging; the same 4 cells are mated and always stay together and are treated alike to maximize cell safety). To explain the procedure for buying this light... Thorfire is making the light, but they can't handle the actual selling and shipping of orders. Banggood will sell and ship the lights. Any problems get posted on the BLF and Banggood handles returns (it'll never happen) and shipping out replacement lights. If you choose the "wrong" cells will you notice huge differences? Probably not. Just steer clear of the cells that are too good to be true. Current state of the art is ~3400mAh for under $10/cell. Some bogus cells are advertised as being 15000mah for a dollar or 2. Cells of that sort don't exist except in fantasy. They are bombs waiting to happen. Get cells from a reputable seller. I test all of my cells because that's the way I'm built, but you don't need to go to that extent.

Do you also have your charger? Cells arrive with a basic (low) charge and nothing more. That's the best way to maintain cell life of LiIon so that's what they do, it's not done because they're stingy. They shouldn't be used in that state of charge. Cells will require a full charge before being used in any light of this type, not just the Q8. If you need charger info PM me or find it on the BLF. I prefer a 4 cell charger to keep all of the cells at the same state all the time, but a charger that will charge fewer cells at once will work as long as charged cells and discharged cells are never in the light at the same time. I can tell you what I use for an everyday 4 cell charger. It won't break the bank and works fine ($30ish). One can spend a great deal more but it's not necessary.

If you need help with cells, again, the BLF has the info in the mega thread or contact me by PM. I'm willing to help since I got you into this. :-) You seem to be the only one so PM seems to make the most sense.

John, the Narsil cheat sheet for the Q8 is found here: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/55296

Narsil is the control program for the light. Everything the light can do is controlled through the button using Narsil. The cheat sheet is folded up and put under the battery end cap so that one always has the instructions on hand.

A manual will be included with the light, but do you want the e-version?