Flashlights

These lights are built to be worked on and fixed (also modded), and that was driven home to me the other day. One of the TG06 lights that I have in strategic places that traditionally need additional light, this one on the DVD cabinet so that I can read titles, wasn't working. I had recently charged the cell. Checking that, it was good and at full voltage. So that meant the light was somehow bad. But I got out my small ring plier and took it fully apart. I saw absolutely nothing in the head and the D'multimeter told me that I had continuity out of the tail switch. Hmmm. So I put everything back together and the thing worked again. I'm guessing a piece of dust got in the way of allowing proper contact of the pieces. Since this light is the one used for reading DVD titles it's in a non-critical role. But I'll keep an eye on it.

If it had been an old 2 D cell light I'd have given it a rap to see if that fixed it before throwing it away, but again, these lights get worked on and fixed and they're easy to work on with minor gear. I think my ring plier set cost me all of $16, and of those I've only use the 2 smallest pliers so far. A small soldering iron is useful for changing or soldering LED connections. I've never had to do that. Of course if one wants to get into the nitty gritty of them the gear increases in complexity, and some of the folks who go deeply into the nitty gritty have significant investment in gear, but that's not me and it's not most users. I lean on the folks with the gear to write the software and burn the chips in the drivers. I might get a bit more involved but still the gear I'd be using is very low tech.

What I'm trying to indicate is that the minor cost of these lights isn't disposable if they don't work. They can be worked on , and even if a driver or emitter needs to be changed it's not a big deal and just a few dollars for the part unless one wants to mod' a light. A modded light can run into some money but it's still not huge bux.

Just a quick question about battery's, does it matter if one buys button or flat tops?

Many times, yes. It all depends on the light. That's the short answer. But in the lights I have that absolutely require button tops I use a rare earth magnet to make a "button top" out of a flat top (see ebay). Or a goober of solder on the cell would also work. One must be careful of shorting the top electrode to the flashlight interior. Shorting a cell is a huge mistake and that is a possibility with the magnet idea. The lights I have where I use magnets all have a polymer ring to help prevent the magnet from shifting and the magnets themselves are very strong despite their tiny size. There is another way to make contact. There exist polymer "washers" with a spring in the center that are designed to make contact with the head or to connect flat tops in series. The build of that connector guarantees that it will never short out. So while some lights require a button top or a flat top there are ways to make the wrong type of cell to work...generally. It's easier to just buy the right cells.

Another consideration is that some lights, like the L6, have restrictions on the cells used as it regards dimensions. The cell designations are general sizes only and they can vary in all dimensions. Combine that with interior light dimensions and some cells won't even enter the tube of the light. Some that are too long stress the springs too much. Adding a magnet makes cells that are too long even worse. But the folks at the Budget Light Forum have a handle on what will and won't work and the manufacturer of the L6 sells 26650 cells that he guarantees will fit into the light; the problem was the length of some cells. The cells he has also happen to be state of the art as far as capacity at this time. The reality is that MANY 26650 cells will work in the L6 and the rotten apples are few. But I'm off subject. I just thought you should know.

The TG06 lights that I use require a button top, but I use flat top cells in them with a magnet. Why? Because I had them. Also, some cells won't make contact in the charger so I keep some magnets of different sizes near it to make that contact. The magnets are quite inexpensive. The magnets are 1-2mm in thickness, round, and are a few mm in diameter; larger for 26650 cells.

If the light has a spring on each end a flat top can be used. Button tops (or a modded flat top) are required if a flat plate is in the head end. That construction might exist in other lights, but I only have that in my small lights.

The manufacturer should tell you what's required in the spec's, but it never hurts to check on the BLF to make sure. That info' will be found in a review. Just go to the BLF and in the upper left corner there's a search function. Just type in the maker and model light with the word "review".

Now generally I get my cells from either Mountain Electronics or Orbtronics. Neither has junk cells for sale. Mountain will tell you what use the cell is best at. Some are known for high discharge rates and some are better for long duration slower discharge. Of course that info' can also be found on the BLF.

Sorry, I know that I can go on and on. I gave you more than you wanted, but to get the most out of some of these lights, not all, one must know about cells. It can make a big difference on performance.

Thanks for the reply. It seems like there is a lot to digest here.

I was thinking about this as I was driving the shopping cart for the wife today, and putting things in it when she wasn't looking. :-)

The reason for a required button head is the lack of a spring on small lights as I wrote. The reason for the lack of a spring is because it adds length to the light. Most folks want the smallest small light that they can find. Too, the small cells used in those lights lack the large mass required for the cells for large lights. The flat plate can take the stress if it gets dropped. But the mass of 2 26650s for example might destroy the driver if they came done on it. At least that's my theory.

There may be a lot to digest, but there's really no need to unless you have an interest in knowing how things work. Just go to the BLF and get the recommendations and see what they say in reviews. It one does want to understand the nitty gritty it gets absorbed. But it's not mandatory to get and use a good light. One can even go to the BLF and state ones requirements and ask for suggestions. For most folks I suggest off the shelf lights that are affordable, quality cells, and an inexpensive charger ($5). For someone wanting to get deeply into the nitty gritty, to start I also suggest off the shelf lights, quality cells (always), and a better charger (<$50 - $100). From there the lights will multiply and one will start to explore modded lights and lights with special circuitry. An example of that would be a light that fits in the palm of my hand and can illuminate out past 200 yards. It can't do it for long because it'll overheat, and because the cell is small, but the circuitry will do it. I call those FET lights "dragster" lights. Small tanks, huge power, and they don't run flat out for very long. They're just amazing.

In my EDC pack I have 2 FET lights; one that was modded for me by a gent in Alabama, and another that was off the shelf. But when huge light is needed they have what's required. It's impossible to see what's behind one of these when they're on full output. Of course they don't need to be used at that output all the time. In the picture in post #25 they would be #3 & #4 from the left. To give an idea of scale, #3 easily fit in my open hand with plenty of hand left over, and I have small hands. That size light has 2 springs, one up front and one in the tail. The TG06 (#1) has a flat plate up front and uses a significantly smaller cell. The X5 next to it, another FET circuitry light, uses the same size cell as the TG06 and has 2 springs. Back to #3 & #4... the tube light is a flood type beam, and #4 has a narrower beam, and the LED itself was modded to tighten the beam even more. It will REALLY reach "out there". I don't exactly know how far. So a general rule of thumb is the bigger the head the farther it will throw light... generally. The biggest light in the picture has HUGE output, and will throw light a great distance but it does it by sheer output. It's beam is neither a spot or flood, but has characteristics of both. #3 is a pure spot beam with 1/3 the output of #4 but it will throw light 2x as far; easily 400 yards. Both are off the shelf. There are hints when examining a light as to what sort of beam it will have, but the easiest way to find out is to read a review until one builds a foundation of knowledge.

To muddy the waters a bit, there are lights with heads that move and a lense up front that changes the beam from a wide angle to a spot (called zoomies, or lensers). I gave a small one to a lady friend of the wifes and mine and she loves the thing. The cost? Under $10. The exact same light but with different "paint" is seen on TV for 2x the cost. There are some of the same type that are simply huge and heavy. I don't have any of those to post a picture.

If you need a hand with light selection let me know. I'm willing to help, but there are others on the BLF who know far more than I do.

My latest "with me all the time in my pocket" light is the Manker E11.

I bought one a month ago and had it all of a week before losing it. I was plowing snow and I assume it's somewhere in a snowbank. Lesson learned; use the clip. My temporary light while waiting for the E11 replacements to arrive was a thorfire TG06; and yes, the clip was used until my replacement E11s came in today. Now I have an E11 clipped into my pocket. I really like the E11. It's everything I need in a carry light that's in my pocket all the time. It's small, lightweight, uses any AA format cell including Li-Ion 14500s for max' brightness, but most of the time I just use it on moonlight output. It's smaller than you can believe for the output (800 lumens) and in a pinch will do for a tactical light.
http://www.mankerlight.com/manker-e11-80...lashlight/

It's tiny so maximum brightness will overheat the light quickly and it'll ramp the brightness down to save itself after 30 seconds. That can be overridden by clicking it back up to max'. Too, runtime is short on max'; 20-25 minutes with 14500 cells, but that can't be done all at once anyway due to the extreme heating. Runtime is much longer with other AA format cells, but brightness is also 1/2 of what the Li-Ion cells can give. It will use ANY AA format cell. The user interface is really good, with the strobe settings out of the way yet immediately accessible, and normal mode being immediately available (moonlight to max) but maximum output being immediately available with a slightly longer switch press at any time. It's a well thought out light and IMO close to perfect for what I use a "with me all the time" sort of light for. Shining this light in anyones eyes is blinding to them, not that I normally have that need, but others might. Outdoors it will give usable light out to 50 yards at least with its even flood type beam. I really like the E11. So much so that when I lost my first one I immediately ordered replacements.

Criticisms, and they are minor... the clip isn't reversible to allow it to be used on a hat brim. But that's understandable since the light is about as short as a light that uses a AA format cell can be made. There simply isn't room to reverse the clip and have it work as designed. While the light is tiny it's a bit too large to be a keyring light for me, but it could certainly be used for that especially if someone wants a light that's 2x brighter than the very best of the keyring lights.

I have an old maglite with 2 - D cells batteries, many years old. Dont really use it. Why not upgrade to LED. Battery explosions mentioned above have me worried. Do you mean they just pop open a little and leak or house fire?

Greg, if you buy quality cells and treat them right they are very safe. It's the junk cells and folks who don't know how to use Li-Ion that have the problems. :-) OK folks who have Samsung Galaxy whatevers too.

Years ago Li-Ion cells were far more dangerous than they are today. If in doubt buy protected cells which prevent short circuits. Too, make sure any light purchased has it's own low voltage cut out. The short story today is that they can be dangerous if misused, but properly used they are quite safe. Safe enough for Radio Shack and WalMart to stock them.

Some no-nos... The following are to prevent Li-Ion bombs.
Never buy junk cells. They can pretty much be recognized. State of the art today in a 18650 is about 3400 - 3500mAh. The junk cells will be claimed to have super capacities. I've seen 18650 cells claiming to hold over 10000mAh, and of course they're 6 for $3 shipped. A good cell will be between $6- $10 per.
Never put them loose in a pocket with other metal objects. This will cause them to turn into a bomb if the poles short out. If I need to carry spare cells I carry them in a plastic holder specifically designed for that use. Protected cells will prevent this, but why tempt fate?
Never short a cell out.
Never leave a charging cell unattended. DO NOT trust any charger.
If a cell gets dented or damaged dispose of it. If the outer wrapper gets damaged remove the old and put new shrink tubing on it.

Now come suggestions for long cell life. They can tolerate some of the following, but cell life will be greatly reduced with some of them. They might turn into a bomb sometime down the road. Much of the following is theory with no basis in known reality.
Don't get them too hot. If it's going to turn into a bomb this will do it immediately. In the car I have primary cells (not rechargeable) in those lights. Folks have deliberately tried to get a cell to burn with heat and they had to put a torch on it for many minutes to get it do anything. But in theory a cell can degrade and burst into flame above 140°F. But no one has ever heard of it happening.
Never discharge them too much. In an emergency this is OK to do. Recycle the cell afterwards- DO NOT hold onto it.
Never over charge them. All chargers that I know of have built in circuitry to prevent that.
Keep spare cells at 1/2 a charge (best @ 3.6ish volts) and refrigerated in a dry container. But it's OK to refrigerate fully charged cells and it's also OK to leave them out at room temp' . But they will in theory degrade faster with more charge inside and warmer storage. Folks have left them fully charged at room temps for decades with little degradation. I'm giving you theoretical best storage. They lose approx' 3% per year from self discharge which is miniscule.

If a cell does start to smoke, don't breathe it and get it outside, and get yourself into fresh air.

That's all that I can think of. It's like any other high density energy source. It just takes knowing what not to do. We use gasoline every day, and that's pretty dangerous stuff, but we know what not to do to keep it safe. High capacity lead acid batteries are the same. If I short out a 1000 amp 24v lead acid cell, the juice that is instantly available will probably melt the conductor and cause a fire. It's just education and care.

If you want more information and discussion google "Li-Ion rechargeable cell safety" and look for links to any of the light forums.

Do they not come with batteries? For instance if I were to buy eagletac do I need to buy separate batteries?

Yes, most times you need to buy cells separately. I've never seen cells and lights packaged together. That doesn't mean it'll never happen though. I don't know why this is except that some of us have very specific requirements for cells that we use. There's no such thing as a free cell, and I know that I wouldn't want to pay for what I would consider junk cells packaged in with a light. Performance is enhanced not only with Li-Ion cells, but by picking the right cells. Longer runtime can be chosen or more output and shorter runtime. But for most users they don't want to get into the nerd stuff all that much and just "quality Li-Ion rechargeables" is all they need to know. There are places to buy cells where junk cells aren't sold. I would pass on the e-cig stores for obtaining cells unless you want your place to burn down. Someone who knows vaping doesn't necessarily know much about Li-Ion cells or how to use them.

BTW, a charger is also required. The one I suggested to Phil and his wife is inexpensive and considered to be pretty decent. Even with a $100 charger it's not put into operation and left unattended.

But why do you ask? You wrote that these cells were on the do not buy list or however you phrased it because of some e-cig users who burned a place down 2 doors away from yours. For those scratching their heads, that post was edited into the one seen above and no longer exists.