Copy Cats and Market Shift

I personally think copy cats kill innovation, creativity and turn away the trail blazers. I know for myself it has. I don't think I will be putting my time and energy into rebooting and tweaking an obscure classic razor anymore only for some Chinese or Russian company to release it 6 months later at half the price...and then wholesale to my competitors. As a small artisan I am taking a risk by bringing an unknown or odd looking razor to market in a enviroment where everyone was selling EJ & Muhle clones. We typically put months, sometimes years into the research and development. In short, why do all the heavy lifting, (especially as the little guy)? I had a list of some really great classics, with added modern tweaks, that i'm just afraid to do now. In the beginning my goal after the DOC was to bring back hard to find beauties at a fair, price far lower than the vintage and far more available...those days are looking to be over. (it was bound to happen)

Just my thoughts on the current state of things....However, I accept it and will simply change my model, only because I can afford to now. Just be weary folks, though it looks like a better deal at the time, it can be short-sighted when it comes to the direction the niche is forced to go. We can support new and interesting designs from small makers like Timeless or we can aid in shutting them down eventually. Personally, I'd like to see a wet shave world with an influx of new and interesting things, not where everything starts to look the same and it cannibalizes itself. Again, just my thoughts and this will be different for all! YMMV

+1 Lipripper660 and others. I understand generic products and their place in the market. Medicine is a good example with expired patents and quality controlled generic products. I am not sure the world benefits from a $25 Rolex watch knock-off or $35 Wolfman exact clone.

Side comment: I asked Brad Sears about making a "Simpson Keyhole" copy brush. His answer was NO as "gentlemen's agreement". He initially sent a picture of a bush handle with a 20% resemblance to the Simpson. I plan to buy another Brad Sears brush and check his website often

I personally think copy cats kill innovation, creativity and turn away the trail blazers. I know for myself it has. I don't think I will be putting my time and energy into rebooting and tweaking an obscure classic razor anymore only for some Chinese or Russian company to release it 6 months later at half the price...and then wholesale to my competitors. As a small artisan I am taking a risk by bringing an unknown or odd looking razor to market. We typically put months, sometimes years into the research and development. In short, why do all the heavy lifting, (especially as the little guy)? I had a list of some really great classics, with added modern tweaks, that i'm just afraid to do now. In the beginning my goal after the DOC was to bring back hard to find beauties at a fair, price far lower than the vintage and far more available...those days are looking to be over. (it was bound to happen)

Just my thoughts on the current state of things....However, I accept it and will simply change my model, only because I can afford to now. Just be weary folks, though it looks like a better deal at the time, it can be short-sighted when it comes to the direction the niche is forced to go. We can support new and interesting designs from small makers like Timeless or we can aid in shutting them down eventually. Personally, I'd like to see a wet shave world with an influx of new and interesting things, not where everything starts to look the same and it cannibalizes itself. Again, just my thoughts and this will be different for all! YMMV

That, my friend, is unfortunate. Certainly understand your conundrum and hope things turn around. The situation in my mind is synonymous with bootlegged copies of music.

CaD314 your insights as a maker and vendor are appreciated on this subject. This unscrupulous practice that seems to be becoming more common and not less so, hits people like you the hardest who not only put in the time, hard work, and effort, but pay your bills by making your living providing all of us the products we love and use daily.

It is irksome to me that there can't be more done to stymie the blatant theft of others design and hard work. And in some instances, not even try to hide it...

Steal the design rename it and put it in a box... shameful.

Interesting discussion. I appreciate the perspectives. I am curious though, do you extend the same disdain to handles...or just whole razors? There are some very nice pieces out there that appear to be original designs but the same manufacturer has some blatantly stolen desigs. By my choice of words, you know where I stand. Just curious because those handles show up a lot in SOTD pictures. That's not an accusation at OP or responders...just an observation across all of the forums.

I have seen pics of 2 clones of two main DE razors in the market coming out of China. They expecting to hit the US market at the end of the year. Some folks are not going to be happy, but that is how it works unfortunately.

As CaD314 points out, the knock offs destroy innovation. If you take away the opportunity for the innovator to get a fair return on their investment what incentive is there to do it? The cost of bringing intellectual property rights enforcement lawsuits is high and just can't be justified for a low margin small market item like a razor an you're still going to have the things coming in. Its easy to blame Chinese or Russian companies but usually those companies are just filling a contract - a North American, maybe your competitor or even your neighbour brings one of your razors over to China and meets with a few factory owners and asks if they can make the thing for $.xx a unit. Their labour is skilled and they can do pretty much anything you want - when stuff comes out of there looking cheap its because the people that ordered wanted a specific (low) price point so its cheap in every way. Higher quality will cost you more but they ca do it. Sometimes the knock offs are coming out of the same factory that the actual item being knocked off is made. Its business to the factory owners. Money talks.

So what do you do about it? If we shrug our shoulders and buy the knock off because we want the razor but can't afford the legit version then we're going to guarantee that the innovators will go out of business or choose another business and we'll be left with a bunch of stagnating knockoffs to choose from. I think it would be great if there was some IP law reform that made it easier and cheaper for the little guys to enforce their rights. From where I stand, I just make the choice not to buy knock offs.

I have seen pics of 2 clones of two main DE razors in the market coming out of China. They expecting to hit the US market at the end of the year. Some folks are not going to be happy, but that is how it works unfortunately.

Well now I am curious. Which razors?

I personally think copy cats kill innovation, creativity and turn away the trail blazers. I know for myself it has. I don't think I will be putting my time and energy into rebooting and tweaking an obscure classic razor anymore only for some Chinese or Russian company to release it 6 months later at half the price...and then wholesale to my competitors. As a small artisan I am taking a risk by bringing an unknown or odd looking razor to market in a enviroment where everyone was selling EJ & Muhle clones. We typically put months, sometimes years into the research and development. In short, why do all the heavy lifting, (especially as the little guy)? I had a list of some really great classics, with added modern tweaks, that i'm just afraid to do now. In the beginning my goal after the DOC was to bring back hard to find beauties at a fair, price far lower than the vintage and far more available...those days are looking to be over. (it was bound to happen)

Just my thoughts on the current state of things....However, I accept it and will simply change my model, only because I can afford to now. Just be weary folks, though it looks like a better deal at the time, it can be short-sighted when it comes to the direction the niche is forced to go. We can support new and interesting designs from small makers like Timeless or we can aid in shutting them down eventually. Personally, I'd like to see a wet shave world with an influx of new and interesting things, not where everything starts to look the same and it cannibalizes itself. Again, just my thoughts and this will be different for all! YMMV

I'm glad I bought the prismatic. THAT razor shaves JUST as well as any of my premium razors at a fraction of the price.

As CaD314 points out, the knock offs destroy innovation.  If you take away the opportunity for the innovator to get a fair return on their investment what incentive is there to do it?  The cost of bringing intellectual property rights enforcement lawsuits is high and just can't be justified for a low margin small market item like a razor an you're still going to have the things coming in.  Its easy to blame Chinese or Russian companies but usually those companies are just filling a contract  - a North American, maybe your competitor or even your neighbour brings one of your razors over to China and meets with a few factory owners and asks if they can make the thing for $.xx a unit.  Their labour is skilled and they can do pretty much anything you want - when stuff comes out of there looking cheap its because the people that ordered wanted a specific (low) price point so its cheap in every way.  Higher quality will cost you more but they ca do it.  Sometimes the knock offs are coming out of the same factory that the actual item being knocked off is made.  Its business to the factory owners.  Money talks.  

So what do you do about it?  If we shrug our shoulders and buy the knock off because we want the razor but can't afford the legit version then we're going to guarantee that the innovators will go out of business or choose another business and we'll be left with a bunch of stagnating knockoffs to choose from.  I think it would be great if there was some IP law reform that made it easier and cheaper for the little guys to enforce their rights.  From where I stand, I just make the choice not to buy knock offs.

AMEN!!!!