Badger brushes cost - is it a markup or real?

Hi friends
I have been studying the Badger world as I progress as a Newbie and plan on getting my first Badger brush.

I understand that all badger knot come from suppliers in China and are set into handles by artisans and manufactures.
Cost of a hi-end knot by it’s self varies between 40-90 USD. Knot like 3 band silver tips and what is named as Manchurian (I understand that there are no real Manchurian Badgers and it is just a grade evaluation)Hi Mountain and silver tips are all around these prices.

Manufactures like Simpson do further processing to the knot and bring it to a higher esthetic and performance level, 
And then comes the handle 

In my web surfing I could find a very nice Silver tip Badger from a manufactures like Zenith in a price of 80 USD and similar (if not identical)knots on artisan handles in prices that are over 400 and more USD

If I would buy a vintage handle, a very nice one in mint condition, and a knot from a great knot supplier, set them as a brush - I would end up with a cost around 50-90 USD.

How is it that we are seeing a market with Badger brushes over 400 USD, what am I missing here?
Really appreciate your input, please 

A Silvertip Knot, 27 mm, extra density



Zenith Manchurian 2 band 27mm

You're entering a whole crazy world with badger especially when you start looking at artisan made brushes and knots.

Most of what has currently been considered the best knots of today are artisan made knots made with what is commonly called manchurian hair.  This includes DG, TNS, Oumo, Mozingo, etc.  They usually have some amount what is called gelling to make the tips softer, depending on the point in time they were purchased they could be extremely geled or slightly.  I dont know if its changed but I dont think Simpson does any geling.

Simpson and Shavemac offer 2-Band Silvertip and in the case of Simpson it is different enough that they offer specific tiers between it and manchurian, what the difference is in the end I don't really know but I do prefer my Simpson 2-band over my Simpson Manchurian.

IMO Simpson or Shavemac would be a very good place to start, especially if you want to try non-geled first.  If you want a good geled brush and dont want to start in the $400 range talk to Ryan at Tanz, or Paul at trotter.  Both offer really great looking handles and very very good knots for great prices.

Some great suggestions for custom brushes. You can also get a nice looking handle, in designs and colors, from the likes of Paladin... But I believe theirs are all mass machine produced (limited designed, with much repetition), for  more money than Trotter, etc charge.

It's hard to beat the homemade ones... unique designs, large variety, and  handmade work... But you lose the name recognition like Paladin or Louis Vuitton. Just don't hold any social gatherings in your bathroom? Lol.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Hahaha, 
Gona cancel Friday Bathroom Party

If I may… look at Lee Sabini knots too.  

I love Shavemac 2 band (Rudy Vey) and Brad Sears (Lee Sabini).  

Some people love big knots, some love gelled tips.  

I like minimally processed, 22-26mm knots.

Rudy is another great option for quality handles and he will stuff it with any knot he is able to order. Paladin is a good one too for inexpensive gelled knots but like you said you can only pick from what he has on the shelf and often the best ones get sold quick.

I named the 4 I did because they all take orders, and all have some of the best knots without charging nearly 200$ for a bundle of hair and 200$ for a handle.  Shavemacs own website will let you pick from like 100 different colors and 10 or so shapes, and Simpson will make a brush for you if they dont have what you want in their site.

My suggestion is don't spend more than 200 unless your sure you really want to dive in and spend tons of money.  Once you start buying DG and mozingo brushes your going to be buying others cause you want to know which one is the king, or just because you'll want more.

If I may… look at Lee Sabini knots too.  

I love Shavemac 2 band (Rudy Vey) and Brad Sears (Lee Sabini).  

Some people love big knots, some love gelled tips.  

I like minimally processed, 22-26mm knots.

Rudy is another great option for quality handles and he will stuff it with any knot he is able to order. Paladin is a good one too for inexpensive gelled knots but like you said you can only pick from what he has on the shelf and often the best ones get sold quick.

I named the 4 I did because they all take orders, and all have some of the best knots without charging nearly 200$ for a bundle of hair and 200$ for a handle.  Shavemacs own website will let you pick from like 100 different colors and 10 or so shapes, and Simpson will make a brush for you if they dont have what you want in their site.

My suggestion is don't spend more than 200 unless your sure you really want to dive in and spend tons of money.  Once you start buying DG and mozingo brushes your going to be buying others cause you want to know which one is the king, or just because you'll want more.

Thank you Itsallgravy, I take your guidance to stay at 200, 
This process if fascinating

If I may… look at Lee Sabini knots too.  

I love Shavemac 2 band (Rudy Vey) and Brad Sears (Lee Sabini).  

Some people love big knots, some love gelled tips.  

I like minimally processed, 22-26mm knots.

Rudy is another great option for quality handles and he will stuff it with any knot he is able to order. Paladin is a good one too for inexpensive gelled knots but like you said you can only pick from what he has on the shelf and often the best ones get sold quick.

I named the 4 I did because they all take orders, and all have some of the best knots without charging nearly 200$ for a bundle of hair and 200$ for a handle.  Shavemacs own website will let you pick from like 100 different colors and 10 or so shapes, and Simpson will make a brush for you if they dont have what you want in their site.

My suggestion is don't spend more than 200 unless your sure you really want to dive in and spend tons of money.  Once you start buying DG and mozingo brushes your going to be buying others cause you want to know which one is the king, or just because you'll want more.

Thank you Itsallgravy, I take your guidance to stay at 200, 
This process if fascinating

Anytime, just to give you an Idea.  A Shavemac brush filled with a 26mm 2-Band Silvertip will run you around 150$ if you build it with their configurator on their website.  I would suggest starting with the standard and not the D01 unless your sure you're going to like a very dense bundle.  I love my D01 but that kind of density is not for everyone and I added 2mm of additional loft on mine to give it some movement.

For me the difference between a $90 knot and a $250 knot is minimal these days it really comes down to if you want that $400 brush or the $150 custom brush will make you just as happy because performance wise they will be very close.

For me the difference between a $90 knot and a $250 knot is minimal these days it really comes down to if you want that $400 brush or the $150 custom brush will make you just as happy because performance wise they will be very close.

Thank you, 
Wise words my friend

Rudy is another great option for quality handles and he will stuff it with any knot he is able to order. Paladin is a good one too for inexpensive gelled knots but like you said you can only pick from what he has on the shelf and often the best ones get sold quick.

I named the 4 I did because they all take orders, and all have some of the best knots without charging nearly 200$ for a bundle of hair and 200$ for a handle.  Shavemacs own website will let you pick from like 100 different colors and 10 or so shapes, and Simpson will make a brush for you if they dont have what you want in their site.

My suggestion is don't spend more than 200 unless your sure you really want to dive in and spend tons of money.  Once you start buying DG and mozingo brushes your going to be buying others cause you want to know which one is the king, or just because you'll want more.

Thank you Itsallgravy, I take your guidance to stay at 200, 
This process if fascinating

Anytime, just to give you an Idea.  A Shavemac brush filled with a 26mm 2-Band Silvertip will run you around 150$ if you build it with their configurator on their website.  I would suggest starting with the standard and not the D01 unless your sure you're going to like a very dense bundle.  I love my D01 but that kind of density is not for everyone and I added 2mm of additional loft on mine to give it some movement.

Thank you, Yes, the DO1 looks amazing

For the more expensive brushes you are usually paying for these things:

First and foremost, more badger hair. The knot will be of significantly higher density than any ready made Chinese knot you can buy.
A second consideration would be the handle material. Going into that price for Simpson and Declaration you are paying for a fancier handle material. Also for a fancier handle shape. Scott from Declaration does his own pours. Simpson uses ready made stock, but they go through work of procuring special rod stock. Scott turns it personally and it will be unique. Simpson keeps their stuff more the same.

Whether those things are worth it is up to the buyer. For me when starting to go past 400 dollars I'm not as willing to bite, but I will. I have no problems waiting for someone to tire of their brush and buying it secondhand for a better price. A majority of my brushes have come to me that way. To me Shavemac is sitting in the best spot right now, but I do love my Simpson brushes as well and recommend them as well. There's a good deal of many other brushes that don't get critical acclaim from the forums that I quite love too. I don't like a good deal of the ready made Chinese knots because of the processing treatment they receive. The market has drifted to gel tips, and I'm not overly fond of gel tips as it is, but it seems the ready made Chinese knots take it to an even worse degree. I have found suitable ones, but far and few. I've seen it even in Shavemac 2-band Silvertip and makes me leery to go for that anymore. Not that I really would want to as I love 2-band D01.

Overall you will find most of the knots follow a general trend, but variation is always the name of the game. Sometimes that is good, but it can be bad. Knot construction is usually quite good, but it can be even off for the big players at times. Not so much to make it unusable for another, but unusable for you. You might find a batch is scritchier than you are used to. You could win the lottery so to speak and get a really excellent softness. I've seen handle materials I've liked pictures of, and then bought that material to not be as impressed with it. I spent time chasing a large Muhle STF 2.0 brush that no matter how many damn brushes I bought for it it wasn't any larger than the next one down. I can find differences in all my brushes, but overall within the same grade they are largely the same. Even saying that, I don't want to part with my brushes. They are each unique in their own way. I just have an irrational love of brushes.

For the more expensive brushes you are usually paying for these things:

First and foremost, more badger hair. The knot will be of significantly higher density than any ready made Chinese knot you can buy.
A second consideration would be the handle material. Going into that price for Simpson and Declaration you are paying for a fancier handle material. Also for a fancier handle shape. Scott from Declaration does his own pours. Simpson uses ready made stock, but they go through work of procuring special rod stock. Scott turns it personally and it will be unique. Simpson keeps their stuff more the same.

Whether those things are worth it is up to the buyer. For me when starting to go past 400 dollars I'm not as willing to bite, but I will. I have no problems waiting for someone to tire of their brush and buying it secondhand for a better price. A majority of my brushes have come to me that way. To me Shavemac is sitting in the best spot right now, but I do love my Simpson brushes as well and recommend them as well. There's a good deal of many other brushes that don't get critical acclaim from the forums that I quite love too. I don't like a good deal of the ready made Chinese knots because of the processing treatment they receive. The market has drifted to gel tips, and I'm not overly fond of gel tips as it is, but it seems the ready made Chinese knots take it to an even worse degree. I have found suitable ones, but far and few. I've seen it even in Shavemac 2-band Silvertip and makes me leery to go for that anymore. Not that I really would want to as I love 2-band D01.

Overall you will find most of the knots follow a general trend, but variation is always the name of the game. Sometimes that is good, but it can be bad. Knot construction is usually quite good, but it can be even off for the big players at times. Not so much to make it unusable for another, but unusable for you. You might find a batch is scritchier than you are used to. You could win the lottery so to speak and get a really excellent softness. I've seen handle materials I've liked pictures of, and then bought that material to not be as impressed with it. I spent time chasing a large Muhle STF 2.0 brush that no matter how many damn brushes I bought for it it wasn't any larger than the next one down. I can find differences in all my brushes, but overall within the same grade they are largely the same. Even saying that, I don't want to part with my brushes. They are each unique in their own way. I just have an irrational love of brushes.

Thank you Joe, very insightful

I’m not a Shavemac expert, but I have owned 8 of them and keep 6 in my rotation. 

The D01 can be a lather thief, they take a while to soften and really are great if you want extreme backbone.  

The 2 band Shavemac has really nice backbone, releases lather easier, requires less product, and has smaller diameter shaft hairs.   They are a little less money and in my opinion, one of the best knots if you look at a price per performance ratio.   Want more backbone, have Rudy Vey set it a little lower in the handle (less loft) and if you bowl lather, my goodness the bulbs perform well.  Want to face lather, consider a 24mm fan which is great for both.

Below are two he has made in the past year that I have.  The butterscotch is a 22mm that I use when I travel.  The blue is a 24mm I use when I bowl lather.  I also have a 20, 24 fan and 26mm all from Rudy all 2 band Shavemacs.  He can tell you about pricing, but all were a phenomenal value, love them and have a purpose for me.  

Note, I like this handle as I have a bad thumb and bowl lather.  He can do any custom handle you want on his lathe… and his butterscotch color is exquisite.