"Artisan" Fragrances/EdTs - What's the Consensus?

I always think of eau de toilette as Clorox and Pine Sol and Scrubbing Bubbles.

So you just assume that artisanal shaving makers are untalented and uneducated?

The words artisinal and artisan have been very overused and misapplied. Anything so labeled is now generally suspect, often justifiably so. The same thing happened with the word "natural" several years ago. For example, the overpriced, mediocre pizza sold by a restaurant near me. They call it "artisan pizza" to make it sound exclusive and niche, and then jack the price up through the roof. That happens with a lot of other products, and the public has started to wise up. Unfortunately, the wheat is getting thrown out with the chaff.

I have taken educational courses and certification courses and my fragrances sell outside of the shaving world. Just because someone makes shaving supplies doesn't make them untalented or unable to properly understand the art of perfumery.

But not everybody is you. Some "artisan" products smell so bad that they qualify as chemical weapons, and are therefore banned under the Geneva Convention. Somebody deciding to make the fragrance equivalent of bathtub gin and calling it artisan won't make it smell any better. There are also some cottage industry perfumers who are quite good, with a small percentage being brilliant.

What does EdT mean?

Eastern daylight Time. It is also French for "I am too lazy to spell out eau de toilette".

I used the term "artisan" because the original poster used that term. I'm not here to argue what that is or if the word has been worn out. I also feel like, based on a previous thread that I avoided like the plague, that arguing about the meaning of the term artisan is also worn out. We use the language that is most convenient, and if I have a word that implies "someone who creates on a small scale, by hand from start to finish," then I'm going to have to use it, regardless if it has been appropriated by large companies. It's unfortunate, but I've got nothing better in the chamber.

The original topic was that "artisans" in the shaving world could not transition into the fragrance world. Maybe some might not, you are correct, but I was pushing back on painting with such a broad brush, i.e. if you make shaving products then you could not be good at composing fragrances, which is inherently false.

I also did not say that because I have trained or educated myself that all shaving artisans are talented or knowledgeable scentmakers. That would also be totally false and if I implied that, then I apologize. I just wanted to point out that it is unfair to say all are good or all are bad. Like everything in life, there is good and bad in everything and we have to judge in a case-by-case scenario.

So you just assume that artisanal shaving makers are untalented and uneducated?

The words artisinal and artisan have been very overused and misapplied.  Anything so labeled is now generally suspect, often justifiably so.  The same thing happened with the word "natural" several years ago.  For example, the overpriced, mediocre pizza sold by a restaurant near me.  They call it "artisan pizza" to make it sound exclusive and niche, and then jack the price up through the roof.  That happens with a lot of other products, and the public has started to wise up.  Unfortunately, the wheat is getting thrown out with the chaff.

I have taken educational courses and certification courses and my fragrances sell outside of the shaving world. Just because someone makes shaving supplies doesn't make them untalented or unable to properly understand the art of perfumery.

But not everybody is you.  Some "artisan" products smell so bad that they qualify as chemical weapons, and are therefore banned under the Geneva Convention.  Somebody deciding to make the fragrance equivalent of bathtub gin and calling it artisan won't make it smell any better.  There are also some cottage industry perfumers who are quite good, with a small percentage being brilliant.

What does EdT mean?

Eastern daylight Time.  It is also French for "I am too lazy to spell out eau de toilette".

OK, your points are all well taken, however, this whole "whats an artisan" discussion has been hashed out ad nauseum on other threads and it would be appreciated if we don't re-hash it all again. For the purposes of DFS, the term "artisan" is basically shorthand for a person who makes product (soap, aftershave, brushes, razors etc) on a much smaller scale than say Gillette, Proctor & Gamble, Chanel or even Edwin Jager. I don't think anybody can seriously disagree with that definition.

Thanks,
Marko

Has anyone else noticed that the OP has not commented once since his original, and somewhat nasty, post. When I answered his post, I stated that his last two sentences belied his second sentence (see his original post and my answer) and I have seen nothing to change that assessment. I have to wonder if he worded his post just to start a flame war. However, what he got instead was an excellent discussion and a look into the thoughts of our members, especially some of our merchants. Whether a famous European house or an eau de toilette from an artisan, if it’s good and I like it then I get it. If I don’t like the scent then that company will not be getting my money for that product. It really is that simple and has nothing to do with who is producing it.

Has anyone else noticed that the OP has not commented once since his original, and somewhat nasty, post.   When I answered his post, I stated that his last two sentences belied his second sentence (see his original post and my answer) and I have seen nothing to change that assessment.  I have to wonder if he worded his post just to start a flame war.  However, what he got instead was an excellent discussion and a look into the thoughts of our members, especially some of our merchants.  Whether a famous European house or an eau de toilette from an artisan, if it’s good and I like it then I get it.  If I don’t like the scent then that company will not be getting my money for that product.  It really is that simple and has nothing to do with who is producing it.

Well said Freddy , I completely agree with your last point as well, if I like it I buy it. I do, however, enjoy speaking directly with the creative force behind products such as hawns of Chatillon Lux. I don't think I'd be able to do that if I wanted to talk to the nose in charge at Chanel although to be fair, I haven't tried.

Has anyone else noticed that the OP has not commented once since his original, and somewhat nasty, post.   When I answered his post, I stated that his last two sentences belied his second sentence (see his original post and my answer) and I have seen nothing to change that assessment.  I have to wonder if he worded his post just to start a flame war.  However, what he got instead was an excellent discussion and a look into the thoughts of our members, especially some of our merchants.  Whether a famous European house or an eau de toilette from an artisan, if it’s good and I like it then I get it.  If I don’t like the scent then that company will not be getting my money for that product.  It really is that simple and has nothing to do with who is producing it.

Well said Freddy , I completely agree with your last point as well, if I like it I buy it. I do, however, enjoy speaking directly with the creative force behind products such as hawns of Chatillon Lux. I don't think I'd be able to do that if I wanted to talk to the nose in charge at Chanel although to be fair, I haven't tried.

Who doesn't love talking about their passion? As long as I'm not giving out formulas, there's not much better than talking smells.

I also did not say that because I have trained or educated myself that all shaving artisans are talented or knowledgeable scentmakers. That would also be totally false and if I implied that, then I apologize. I just wanted to point out that it is unfair to say all are good or all are bad. Like everything in life, there is good and bad in everything and we have to judge in a case-by-case scenario.

Wait, wait, wait. So you're saying that we shouldn't prejudge people or rely on stereotypes or broad brushstrokes to make up our mind? This changes everything...

Couldn't agree more Freddy. I thought this was a trolling post from the get-go judging by some of the OP's other posts. I thought I'd give them the benefit of the doubt though and see if they would respond before calling them out. I have a feeling this thread didn't pan out the way they were hoping.

I also did not say that because I have trained or educated myself that all shaving artisans are talented or knowledgeable scentmakers. That would also be totally false and if I implied that, then I apologize. I just wanted to point out that it is unfair to say all are good or all are bad. Like everything in life, there is good and bad in everything and we have to judge in a case-by-case scenario.

Wait, wait, wait. So you're saying that we shouldn't prejudge people or rely on stereotypes or broad brushstrokes to make up our mind? This changes everything...

I love it.

Honestly, the last few comments have shown us the very best of DFS.  Also, Marko, you hit the nail squarely on the head about being able to actually keep in touch with the makers of their products.  I so wish you could have been at the St. Louis meet-up.  Getting to meet hawns and ezlovan, as well as others, truly put a human face on some of the products we use and, as silly as this sounds, makes those products even better and more personal.  Of course, when Shawn, Rod and Mandy, Will, and Mohammad become even more famous than Dior, Chanel, Yves St. Laurant, etc., we can say we knew them when.

Couldn't agree more Freddy. I thought this was a trolling post from the get-go judging by some of the OP's other posts. I thought I'd give them the benefit of the doubt though and see if they would respond before calling them out. I have a feeling this thread didn't pan out the way they were hoping.

And isn't that a huge plus, Jeff?