Artificial scarcity

I don't look at certifications before I decide whether a soap is for me or not. Do I like it? Does it smell good? Does it give me a good shave? Certification is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. I stopped counting how many B&M soaps I have a while ago but its over 40 I think. Only one has caused me some minor irritation. While I've only been using a DE razor for about 4 years now I have been shaving in one form or another for almost 45 years so I think I'm a pretty good judge of what is a good shave for me, obviously I can have no opinion on what someone else may enjoy or not but for me B&M, L&L, T+S, WK work very well. I couldn't imagine what more I could ask for from a soap and frankly I don't really care, I've found stuff I like and life is good. I can certify that.

Just my two cents, but the market will take care of almost all of these issues. Nikos has reactions to the Barrister and Mann soaps, so he won't-and shouldn't-buy them. Me, I've got just about everything Will has made, and they are consistently excellent soaps for me. I'll continue to buy them. Just grabbed the Le Grand Chypre bundle and the Barrister's Reserve Classic Bundle because I don't have those, and I've liked every B&M product I've tried (with the exception of a couple whose scent the wife just said no to )

If someone puts out a terrible soap that causes bad reactions in a large group of users, that information will get out quickly, and that soap maker will be out of business very soon.

I'm with Marko-if I read the ingredients and I like them, and I get a great shave with the product, I don't give a hoot about any certification from a quasi-governmental body.

I certainly understand Barrister_N_Mann 's point about the numerous "dabblers" (my term not his) in the soap business - they don't have to turn a profit, they don't have to make rent, utilities, maybe even a payroll and can cruise along releasing product sporadically when they have time (bufflehead?) and pretty much operating in a way that wouldn't be sustainable if it was the artisan's sole source of revenue and they had to make an actual living at it and support their family. That being said, some of those so called "dabblers" make some truly wonderful products and the wet shaving world would be a little less wonderful without them. What may be challenging for competitors is great for the consumers. At least in the short term. We'll see how it all plays out. Maybe P&G ends up buying everybody and forces us all back on to the canned shaving foam and cartridge razors. Talk about your distopian future.

This is not what I meant. If you read my previous posts again, you'll understand it.
I wonder if you, not you personally but the American artisans as a whole, have to comply with any regulation, not the European specifically.​ Or you just make a soap and offer it to us.

Americans generally add creosote to anything headed for Europe. It helps stabilize the soap molecules and adds a wonderful tar aroma.

Ok seriously, is this what you were looking for?

https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/resourcesf...388736.htm

Maybe P&G ends up buying everybody and forces us all back on to the canned shaving foam and cartridge razors. Talk about your distopian future.

The very definition of the shavepocalypse. I think I would have to just say eff it and grow a beard at that point!

The red flag for me is a waitlist that opens and closes. If the waitlist was left open anyone could track their progress in line and relax. If they feel the line is too long they move along, no "anticipated regret" because they know they can add their name to the list at any point. Instead they wait like a sniper in the tall grass to submit their names in a waitlist that is only open for a very short period of time.

I think we have to clarify the meaning of artisan and artisanal products. Artisans can't be large companies by definition.
Sure there were makers of shaving soaps, but as far as it concerns the average wet shaver that didn't have to google to find 300+ different makers, the well-known and tested artisans were only a few.
Let's not compare the current artisan market with the one we used to know a few years ago. I've lost the count of artisanal products currently available a long time ago.

Well known and tested by whom? I was not claiming that the larger companies are artisans, just that the artisans and larger companies are selling into the same marketplace and are alternatives to one another. So if Brand X artisan soapmaker were to deliberately restrict supply to increase prices, wetshavers could buy from Brand Y artisan or Brand Z company. To get a good shave at an affordable cost, the only requirement of a shaving soap is that it work well and be reasonably priced. Whether or not the soap is artisan made is irrelevant. It is the bottom line that counts. There are those poor folks who channel their inner lemming and say "I absolutely have to have Brand X artisan soaps, and dammit, there are none available except those resold at an exorbitant price! I am entitled to buy the items I desire at a price I find fair." Such individuals are brainwashed by a wetshaving subculture of consumption and have wandered off into an unrealistic, hyper-materialist quicksand. That is seldom a happy place. The crystal ball says they probably won't be able to buy that 2016 Aston Martin Vanquish Zagato for $50,000 either. If they want a styling, fun to drive, affordable, sporty looking car, and enjoy life they don't need to. There are plenty of alternatives, and always were.

Does anyone think that all these artisans comply with any regulation? EU cosmetic regulations are strict. Can you say the same about the American? No doubt why the American artisans are so many nowadays.

It is to be expected that shaving soap manufacturers of any sort comply with the regulations where they are located. If they sell into distant locales, it is expected that they also comply with the regulations in those places. Failure to do so means they are only a complaint away from legal sanctions and possible closure.

On the subject of market forces, I will voice the unpopular opinion that the current market is extremely unstable. You have larger/more visible artisanal manufacturers like B&M, RazoRock, L&L, etc., but it's the little places that are the problem. Most of those folks have day jobs, and so are not dependent upon actually turning any kind of real profit. They're killing the dedicated soap houses in a death-by-a-thousand-cuts fashion; the more of them there are, the more tiny chunks come out of the revenue of everyone else, not just the larger companies. In the long term, this may bear fruit and force manufacturers to continue to innovate, but the problem is that the companies who just sort of plod along have no reason to drop out because they're not dependent upon the income.

I would call it dynamic and rapidly evolving rather than merely unstable. That is true for retail markets in general at present. It could well be that a few long-established companies and a sea of very small cottage industry / hobbyist soapmakers predominate when a new equilibrium is reached. It is not like the government can tell the hobbyists "Don't sell soap because you are competing with other soapmakers". Individual hobbyist enterprises are often short-lived, as the proprietor's interests and priorities change. That might well turn out to be an advantage for the more bona fide small business soapmakers.

On the subject of market forces, I will voice the unpopular opinion that the current market is extremely unstable. You have larger/more visible artisanal manufacturers like B&M, RazoRock, L&L, etc., but it's the little places that are the problem. Most of those folks have day jobs, and so are not dependent upon actually turning any kind of real profit. They're killing the dedicated soap houses in a death-by-a-thousand-cuts fashion; the more of them there are, the more tiny chunks come out of the revenue of everyone else, not just the larger companies. In the long term, this may bear fruit and force manufacturers to continue to innovate, but the problem is that the companies who just sort of plod along have no reason to drop out because they're not dependent upon the income.

I would call it dynamic and rapidly evolving rather than merely unstable.  That is true for retail markets in general at present.  It could well be that a few long-established companies and a sea of very small cottage industry / hobbyist soapmakers predominate when a new equilibrium is reached.  It is not like the government can tell the hobbyists "Don't sell soap because you are competing with other soapmakers".  Individual hobbyist enterprises are often short-lived, as the proprietor's interests and priorities change.  That might well turn out to be an advantage for the more bona fide small business soapmakers.

The market may never stabilize in the traditional sense where there are a few solid producers, a few up and comers and a few over the hillers . The age of internet commerce gives the so called hobbyists access to global markets so whether or not its the same hobbyists or a constant stream of new ones moving in and out of the space, its pretty much assured that they'll be there. Barriers to entry into the space are just so few, anybody can get a website and a storefront and make soap in 5 gallon buckets in their basement and they're away to the races. We'll continue to see new artisans/hobbyists entering the market place and others close their doors and leave it like Mama Bear, Stroppe Shoppe and others have.

The market may never stabilize in the traditional sense where there are a few solid producers, a few up and comers and a few over the hillers . The age of internet commerce gives the so called hobbyists access to global markets so whether or not its the same hobbyists or a constant stream of new ones moving in and out of the space, its pretty much assured that they'll be there. Barriers to entry into the space are just so few, anybody can get a website and a storefront and make soap in 5 gallon buckets in their basement and they're away to the races. We'll continue to see new artisans/hobbyists entering the market place and others close their doors and leave it like Mama Bear, Stroppe Shoppe and others have.

That might well be the case. If it means a steady supply of quality shaving soaps at a reasonable price, then it is all good in the end. I don't really care where my shaving soap comes from, as long as it is good, available, and reasonably priced. For those who want to stick with one brand only, it seems unlikely Mitchell's Wool Fat, Institut Karite, L'Occitane, Van Der Hagen, Tabac, Shetland Soap Company, La Toja, Kiss My Face or Speick are going away anytime soon. The same goes for the more upscale and pricey Geo F. Trumper, D.R. Harris, Truefitt & Hill, Taylor of Old Bond Street, and Art of Shaving. Dove works too, and will probably be around long after we are all dead and gone from old age.

More to the point, the wetshaving culture on the forums, with the exception of Reddit, seems to be increasingly strange and divergent from mainstream traditional wetshaving. An increasing obsession with a wide range of irrelevant details leads to seemingly endless tangents and going down rabbit holes. This thread is a good example, as are the increasing number of whiny Wolfman razor threads in various forums. And the whole large company vs. small artisan shop vs. hobbyist thing is getting to be a joke. It is just shaving folks, not rocket science and not some black art. Getting lost in details to the point of not seeing the forest for the trees is a waste of time. Worrying about artificial scarcity in a marketplace awash with affordable, quality products of all types is just plain silly. None of that nonsense is going to make your shaves any better. Or maybe folks are here simply to wring their hands and run around in circles?