Apprenticeships for Artisans

Most of us here seem to really appreciate certain small business artisans. There is something romantic and noble about someone just like you or me leaning a skill to mastery, using that skill to sell a product or service, and working hard to translate that into a profitable independent business that can provide for one's needs outside of a 9-5 job and compete with the corporate giants.

Of course, one of the problems with being a small time operation is that if your product or service is exceptional and in heavy demand, customers can get put on indefinite wait lists, or must pay exorbitant mark up fees to re-sellers that have an inside track on the supply chain. Another problem for the consumer has to do with it being dependent upon a 1 or 2 person show. If the maker of your favorite soap or fragrance or brush or razor dies of old age, retires, or otherwise goes out of business due to bad accounting, tax issues, marketing issues, or logistic issues; suddenly you no longer have your favorite product. On the other hand, if your favorite after shave is Old Spice, this is a problem you most likely will never have to worry about. (+1 for P&G)

These are problems that have several solutions. But for this thread, I'd like to focus on one solution in particular; namely, the age old practice of apprenticeship, and passing down specialized knowledge to sons, daughters, and passionate students of the craft. Some artisans don't want apprentices, and prefer to work alone. I can't begrudge them this, but is sad for us if they have a specialty formula, trade secret, or particular skill that will die with them. Wouldn't it be nice if Lee Sabini could train a young, passionate student to make brush knots that equaled, or even surpassed, his own standards which he himself could judge and supervise? Wouldn't it be nice if Martin de Candre could train a young soap maker in the ancient Marseille method? And wouldn't it be nice if James Dufour (Wolfman Razors), could train a young machinist to make razors with the impeccable eye to detail, polish, and tolerances that he himself has? This could also apply to the best strait razor artisans and fragrance makers as well. Or how about restoration specialists that clean/sharpen/hone blades and razors to a like new condition?

Are any members here passionate enough about these products and services to contact one of these masters and learn from the best? Are any members here already doing this? If so, what is your arrangement? The pay might be meager at first, but would work for a room and board type trade off be doable? And for artisans themselves reading this thread, does taking on an apprentice(s) appeal to you, knowing that you can pass on your passion and knowledge through the generations? If so, what would the arrangement be? A lot of sweeping floors and fulfilling orders as well as assisting in the laboratory? How could you compensate your apprentice, so they could sustain themselves in the process? Part time, so they'd have to take another job on the side? A living wage, salary, contract, or percentage of sales? Live-in, room and board type set up?

I'd love to see unique and specialized crafts continue through the years, and I'm sure you would too. I hope this thread can spur some thought as to solutions for these issues, and maybe even connect master artisans with passionate, young students that love and respect the craft as much as the masters.

The issue with appreciate ships in the modern economy is that once the apprentice gains enough skill, they up and leave.

In the economy of the past, there was one or two artisens in a given craft and those apprentices was expected to take over or move to another area.

Also it's hard to ensure quality in such industry and if an apprentices does subpar work, the time and materials would be wasted.... Also we hobbyist buy from artisens based on their reputation: if I purchased a Varlet and found that it was made by an apprentice I would expect a discount or would be rather unhappy. And if a discount was offered, how do we ensure that the market will reflect that?

If an apprentice gains enough skill, then leaves to start their own business, good for us and the industry! Now there are more craftsmen in the field and the craft continues. Perhaps then the master artisan can take on a new apprentice! And the young journeyman that has just left to start out on their own may have a comparable level of skill, but may sell their product to us at a discounted rate as they build a brand. Win-win.

As for quality, if an apprentice makes or works on a product under a master, how would you ever know the difference as long as the master of the shop is maintaining quality control of the apprentice's work to their standards? Should you get a discount if the quality is the same, and you can't tell the difference?

Aren't Simpson brushes a family affair that have gone down generations? If one of the Simpson children produce a brush, do you ask for a discount, or can you even tell the difference when the older generation is there to watch and maintain quality?

While I do agree that apprenticeship are a win for the community, I was highlighting a major reason why it's not as prevelent as the past.

RE Simpsons brush. It's no longer a family business as Simpsons is owned by Vulfix. Still a great brush maker however... And yes there is a premium on vintage brushes. Compare prices for a Somerset chubby vs regular chubby. Or two band super vs two band Silvertip.

When I go to my local barber and get a shave, the master Barber charges more than the apprentice Barber, even though the master Barber supervises the whole time and does a touch up if needed.

You buy a piece of pottery from a local Potter, the master verson comes at a premium over the apprence copy.

I think there is not much incentive for most artisens to take on an apprence in the modern economy. But again, I agree that the practice would benefit the community.

Len, I have to agree with Spencer (GloryUprising) on this one.  I, too, think the concept is excellent in theory.  However, with the way the artisans of wet shaving products seem to work today, not to mention some excellent competition with other likeminded products serving the same market, I have to wonder if the will to do something like apprenticeship is really out there.

I have read that Lee Sabini has, or at least had in the past, an employee under him that assisted him in his brush making. James at Wolfman seems very close to hiring an employee to assist at making razors. I'm not sure this has brought down the M&F brand, or will bring down the Wolfman brand. And there are many companies that pass down their trades to children without loss of quality. If there is loss of quality, people will stop buying from them or they will have to lower their price. The market, in the long run, always reflects these changes in quality. As for certain vintage models being more expensive, this is sometimes more to do with rarity, or harder to find models than it has to do with quality. And the quality on a Sabini M&F brush is probably superior to a vintage M&F, although it is possible the vintage may cost a premium.

I have a great-uncle that was considered one of the world's premier restorer's of old pocket and hand knives. His work had been featured in magazines, and he often had a wait list. He had apprentices. People came to him because of the quality of his work, and wanted to learn how to do it just as well. I can't imagine that this doesn't also sometimes happen with wet shaving products.

What does an artisan have to gain by having an apprentice? Aside from superficial help during a particularly busy time, what benefit does a modern artisan stand to gain from an apprentice?

Apprenticeships work in arts like barbering and tattooing, where the apprentice pays for the opportunity to learn and work from the shop. They pay rent on their spot, so the Master is receiving benefit from the relationship, beyond the altruistic ideal of "passing on the art".

In a market as competitive as wet shaving soft and hard goods, it just doesn't make a lot of financial sense to introduce someone to the art, teach them your secrets, and create a competitor...

Just my opinion...

In theory, it's an excellent concept. In practice the artisan has everything to lose and very little to gain.

Back in the early 90's I learned to make handmade putters from a very famous putter maker.  I still have my Bridgeport manual mill in the garage.  I don't consider it an apprenticeship, but I learned how to make putters and even made a few for tour players.  I didn't do it to make money or to go on my own, I just love playing golf and had the opportunity to learn a craft that has been taken over by CNC machines, plus it got me into PGA tour events, lol.....

It is funny, James (Wolfman) and I exchanged several emails about milling and my Bridgeport.  So, yeah, I know how to work with steel and how to use manual milling machines and CNC machines.  No, I am not going to make razors or anything like it, lol.....

Like BadDad says, it is a cool concept, but trust me, if my friend thought I was going to go on my own, no way in the frozen tundra he would have taught me a thing.  More times than not, competition is not welcome.

What does an artisan have to gain by having an apprentice? Aside from superficial help during a particularly busy time, what benefit does a modern artisan stand to gain from an apprentice?

Apprenticeships work in arts like barbering and tattooing, where the apprentice pays for the opportunity to learn and work from the shop. They pay rent on their spot, so the Master is receiving benefit from the relationship, beyond the altruistic ideal of "passing on the art".

In a market as competitive as wet shaving soft and hard goods, it just doesn't make a lot of financial sense to introduce someone to the art, teach them your secrets, and create a competitor...

Just my opinion...

In theory, it's an excellent concept. In practice the artisan has everything to lose and very little to gain.

I don't know. What does James (Wolfman) get from hiring an employee? Perhaps he wants to scale up... Perhaps he needs to...

What could an apprentice offer. As I said, the ability to scale up. Maybe the master artisan doesn't want to deal with order processing, customer response, raw goods ordering, cleaning shop. What does any business get from having an employee?

In an apprenticeship model, there are a variety of options. Perhaps the apprentice works for free, or even pays the master for the privilege for learning the craft. Or, works as a regular employee that learns as they are working, in the way James is considering.

I'm not an artisan, so I cannot say which model works best or makes the most sense for both parties. But I do know that it has been done in the crafts, and is currently being done in the crafts. I'd just like to discuss how this has been, or is being applied to wet shaving.