#221
(04-30-2016, 02:33 AM)NeoXerxes Wrote:
(04-30-2016, 02:29 AM)nervosa1901@ Wrote: ....So it looks like my premonition from last week came true. A company called Stork from Belarus has begun producing razor handles that are a knockoff of Wolfman handles, and people on another forum are starting to flip out about it. I say that anyone who has a problem with these handles better not own a soap "inspired by" anyone else, lest they be labeled a hypocrite....

Wow, are these actually knockoffs? Do they simply look like Wolfman handles or are they marketing them as cheapo versions?

http://theshaveden.com/forums/threads/st...dle.51104/

If I've broken a rule by posting a link, please excuse my ignorance.
#222
(04-30-2016, 02:36 AM)nervosa1901@ Wrote:
(04-30-2016, 02:33 AM)NeoXerxes Wrote:
(04-30-2016, 02:29 AM)nervosa1901@ Wrote: ....So it looks like my premonition from last week came true. A company called Stork from Belarus has begun producing razor handles that are a knockoff of Wolfman handles, and people on another forum are starting to flip out about it. I say that anyone who has a problem with these handles better not own a soap "inspired by" anyone else, lest they be labeled a hypocrite....

Wow, are these actually knockoffs? Do they simply look like Wolfman handles or are they marketing them as cheapo versions?

http://theshaveden.com/forums/threads/st...dle.51104/

If I've broken a rule by posting a link, please excuse my ignorance.

That is a straight ripoff. O_O
#223
(04-30-2016, 02:38 AM)NeoXerxes Wrote:
(04-30-2016, 02:36 AM)nervosa1901@ Wrote:
(04-30-2016, 02:33 AM)NeoXerxes Wrote: Wow, are these actually knockoffs? Do they simply look like Wolfman handles or are they marketing them as cheapo versions?

http://theshaveden.com/forums/threads/st...dle.51104/

If I've broken a rule by posting a link, please excuse my ignorance.

That is a straight ripoff. O_O

No, no Peter, you have it all wrong. It's merely "inspired by" Wolfman, is it not???
#224

Posting Freak
Canada
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2016, 02:59 AM by celestino.)
(04-30-2016, 02:29 AM)nervosa1901@ Wrote: ....So it looks like my premonition from last week came true. A company called Stork from Belarus has begun producing razor handles that are a knockoff of Wolfman handles, and people on another forum are starting to flip out about it. I say that anyone who has a problem with these handles better not own a soap "inspired by" anyone else, lest they be labeled a hypocrite....

Not to de-rail the thread, but I am actually expecting one in Titanium in a few weeks and another in Brass, later on. I was very curious to see what they were like as the price and the availability were very appealing.
Celestino
Love, Laughter & Shaving  Heart
#225
With demand as high as it is for Wolfman, and the wait list so long, to include the length of time one waits from the time they get on it, it was only a matter of time before someone started making comparable quality razors/handles. However, I do not agree with copying the designs exactly. The person making those appears to be a highly skilled machinist, so why couldn't they at least come up with some interesting new designs. Regardless, I am curious to hear others thoughts on the overall quality. The ones in the pictures look great.
#226
(04-30-2016, 01:00 AM)grim Wrote:
(04-30-2016, 12:21 AM)CHSeifert Wrote: As long as MDC follows their own home made recipe, they are artisans and in fact soap making artists !

LPL is still a one man operation. I email Cyril directly when I buy his great soaps.

So today LPL is one person. They day he outsources, as indicated, its over. He will be no different than GFT

GFT, T&H, etc already outsource. LPL is one step away.

MdC is making their own stuff in their own factory. That makes them artisans. Yes, true.

But that makes GFT, T&H, DR Harris, etc employees accountants, book keepers, salesmen, and manager, If LPL outsources then the same will be true.

So there seems to be the difference. The British firms are now middle men. MdC has yet to add the middle man.

Now here is where it gets more confusing. In this post SV is called non-artisan http://damnfineshave.com/thread-let-s-ma...3#pid49073

Yet they make their own soap. Why aren't they aren't they artisan? Just like MdC? http://www.saponificiovaresino.com/it/en...ldron-soap. They are not like GFT or T&H. And now they make their own shaving brushes http://www.saponificiovaresino.com/shop/...cts_id=141 and call them artisanal.

Just because you read something on the internet doen't mean it's true, does it ?

Because someone writes a post, where he implies SV is not artisane, does it really make them less artisan ?
I would call Saponificio Varesino artist, since they make their own soap.
They even call their new releases beta, indicating that they always try to improve upon their newest formula.

If this is not an indication of an artist and an inventor, then what is ?

Hobbyist likes this post
Cheers, Claus from Denmark
#227
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2016, 05:21 AM by nervosa1901@.)
(04-30-2016, 04:23 AM)CHSeifert Wrote:
(04-30-2016, 01:00 AM)grim Wrote:
(04-30-2016, 12:21 AM)CHSeifert Wrote: As long as MDC follows their own home made recipe, they are artisans and in fact soap making artists !

LPL is still a one man operation. I email Cyril directly when I buy his great soaps.

So today LPL is one person. They day he outsources, as indicated, its over. He will be no different than GFT

GFT, T&H, etc already outsource. LPL is one step away.

MdC is making their own stuff in their own factory. That makes them artisans. Yes, true.

But that makes GFT, T&H, DR Harris, etc employees accountants, book keepers, salesmen, and manager, If LPL outsources then the same will be true.

So there seems to be the difference. The British firms are now middle men. MdC has yet to add the middle man.

Now here is where it gets more confusing. In this post SV is called non-artisan http://damnfineshave.com/thread-let-s-ma...3#pid49073

Yet they make their own soap. Why aren't they aren't they artisan? Just like MdC? http://www.saponificiovaresino.com/it/en...ldron-soap. They are not like GFT or T&H. And now they make their own shaving brushes http://www.saponificiovaresino.com/shop/...cts_id=141 and call them artisanal.

Just because you read something on the internet doen't mean it's true, does it ?

Because someone writes a post, where he implies SV is not artisane, does it really make them less artisan ?
I would call Saponificio Varesino artist, since they make their own soap.
They even call their new releases beta, indicating that they always try to improve upon their newest formula.

If this is not an indication of an artist and an inventor, then what is ?

Saponifico Varesino may have created a decent soap puck, but most of their scents are copies of well known fragrances, so they are no artist to me. MDC has a scent that is original and they use a curing process that no other soap maker uses. La Savonniere du Moulin, 100% original. A complete departure from anything else we have seen in style and substance. Both of these soaps are about as high quality as you can get in terms of raw materials, production process and finished product. These are examples of what I would consider to be true art in the soap making world.
#228
(04-30-2016, 05:20 AM)nervosa1901@ Wrote:
(04-30-2016, 04:23 AM)CHSeifert Wrote:
(04-30-2016, 01:00 AM)grim Wrote: So today LPL is one person. They day he outsources, as indicated, its over. He will be no different than GFT

GFT, T&H, etc already outsource. LPL is one step away.

MdC is making their own stuff in their own factory. That makes them artisans. Yes, true.

But that makes GFT, T&H, DR Harris, etc employees accountants, book keepers, salesmen, and manager, If LPL outsources then the same will be true.

So there seems to be the difference. The British firms are now middle men. MdC has yet to add the middle man.

Now here is where it gets more confusing. In this post SV is called non-artisan http://damnfineshave.com/thread-let-s-ma...3#pid49073

Yet they make their own soap. Why aren't they aren't they artisan? Just like MdC? http://www.saponificiovaresino.com/it/en...ldron-soap. They are not like GFT or T&H. And now they make their own shaving brushes http://www.saponificiovaresino.com/shop/...cts_id=141 and call them artisanal.

Just because you read something on the internet doen't mean it's true, does it ?

Because someone writes a post, where he implies SV is not artisane, does it really make them less artisan ?
I would call Saponificio Varesino artist, since they make their own soap.
They even call their new releases beta, indicating that they always try to improve upon their newest formula.

If this is not an indication of an artist and an inventor, then what is ?

Saponifico Varesino may have created a decent soap puck, but most of their scents are copies of well known fragrances, so they are no artist to me. MDC has a scent that is original and they use a curing process that no other soap maker uses. La Savonniere du Moulin, 100% original. A complete departure from anything else we have seen in style and substance. Both of these soaps are about as high quality as you can get in terms of raw materials, production process and finished product. These are examples of what I would consider to be true art in the soap making world.


First of all. Everyone copies fragrances.
DR Harris Windsor, inspired by Terre D'Hermés
Creed Original Santal, inspired by Mont Blanc Individuelle
Bois 1920 Extreme, inspired by Zino, Davidoff

The current best shaving soap in the world, in many high end soap users opinion, Panacrema Nuavia Rossa, is scent wise very much inspired by Amouage Epic Man.

Secondly, what other SV soap, than the 70.th, are copies of well known fragrances ?

Thirdly, I don't disagree that both MDC and SDM are artist soap makers. So are Savon des Volcans Bon Berger IMHO.

Tom Slick likes this post
Cheers, Claus from Denmark
#229
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2016, 08:18 PM by nervosa1901@.)
(04-30-2016, 07:33 AM)CHSeifert Wrote:
(04-30-2016, 05:20 AM)nervosa1901@ Wrote:
(04-30-2016, 04:23 AM)CHSeifert Wrote: Just because you read something on the internet doen't mean it's true, does it ?

Because someone writes a post, where he implies SV is not artisane, does it really make them less artisan ?
I would call Saponificio Varesino artist, since they make their own soap.
They even call their new releases beta, indicating that they always try to improve upon their newest formula.

If this is not an indication of an artist and an inventor, then what is ?

Saponifico Varesino may have created a decent soap puck, but most of their scents are copies of well known fragrances, so they are no artist to me. MDC has a scent that is original and they use a curing process that no other soap maker uses. La Savonniere du Moulin, 100% original. A complete departure from anything else we have seen in style and substance. Both of these soaps are about as high quality as you can get in terms of raw materials, production process and finished product. These are examples of what I would consider to be true art in the soap making world.


First of all. Everyone copies fragrances.
DR Harris Windsor, inspired by Terre D'Hermés
Creed Original Santal, inspired by Mont Blanc Individuelle
Bois 1920 Extreme, inspired by Zino, Davidoff

The current best shaving soap in the world, in many high end soap users opinion, Panacrema Nuavia Rossa, is scent wise very much inspired by Amouage Epic Man.

Secondly, what other SV soap, than the 70.th, are copies of well known fragrances ?

Thirdly, I don't disagree that both MDC and SDM are artist soap makers. So are Savon des Volcans Bon Berger IMHO.


Yes, and Montale Aoud Musk was inspired by Nasomatto's Duro, and Millesime 1849 was inspired by New York Oud, and so on, but that doesn't make it right...

The Asylum LE was a virtual copy of ADP Colonia. Many state that Manna smells like Tabac (I haven't smelled myself, so I cannot comment myself). It took me a moment to place Felce when I first tried it, but I concluded that it was just an expensive version of Claiborne's Curve. I cannot comment on Cosmo, but I do recall reading somewhere that there was a fragrance that Cosmo mimicked.

The point is that there is no art in copying because there is no real creative process being utilized by the maker. He is taking the idea of another and trying to profit from it. Back to soap, I would liken the typical "artisan" soap maker to a painter. The artisan creates his soap base, and it may be excellent (similar to a canvas used by Picasso). The soap maker then selects his essential and fragrance oils, often of inferior quality (compared to the high quality paint a great artist might use). He then sits down with a Picasso in front of him and tries to use his skill and materials to recreate the painting and sell it as a work "inspired by" Picasso. Would you call this person an artist? I wouldn't. I'd call him nothing more than a painter.
#230
(04-30-2016, 05:20 AM)nervosa1901@ Wrote: Yes, and Montale Aoud Musk was inspired by Nasomatto's Duro, and Millesime 1849 was inspired by New York Oud, and so on, but that doesn't make it right...

The Asylum LE was a virtual copy of ADP Colonia. Many state that Manna smells like Tabac (I haven't smelled myself, so I cannot comment myself). It took me a moment to place Felce when I first tried it, but I concluded that it was just an expensive version of Claiborne's Curve. I cannot comment on Cosmo, but I do recall reading somewhere that there was a fragrance that Cosmo mimicked.

The point is that there is no art in copying because there is no real creative process being utilized by the maker. He is taking the idea of another and trying to profit from it. Back to soap, I would liken the typical "artisan" soap maker to a painter. The artisan creates his soap base, and it may be excellent (similar to a canvas used by Picasso). The soap maker then selects his essential and fragrance oils, often of inferior quality (compared to the high quality paint a great artist might use). He then sits down with a Picasso in front of him and tries to use his skill and materials to recreate the painting in front of him and sell it as a work "inspired by" Picasso. Would you call this person an artist? I wouldn't. I'd call him nothing more than a painter.

Case in point...

Fougère Aromatique is, as its name suggests, the aromatic version of our all-natural fougère, built on an accord of oakmoss, French lavender, tonka bean, and hay absolute, a smell akin to liquid sunshine. We blended the fragrance with touches of lime, cardamom, and thyme as an homage to Invasion Barbare, Stephanie Bakouche's remarkable aromatic masterpiece.

In the early 20th Century, the House of DeLaire created a magnificent perfume base for legendary perfume firm Parfums Caron. A masterpiece in its own right, the base, known as “Mousse de Saxe” (Saxon Moss) made use of a brand new aromatic chemical called isobutyl quinoline, an incredibly bitter, dark, leathery substance of incredible potency and versatility. Marie DeLaire, head of the House, built the base around this strange new substance, weaving anise, iodine, oak moss, and various other compounds into a seamlessly beautiful, velvety tapestry that was to form the basis of many of Caron’s greatest masterpieces. DeLaire continued to manufacture its legendary base for Caron until 1969, when the House went bankrupt and the formula was lost. Today, everyone who ever knew the original Mousse de Saxe formula is long dead, the base itself a mere memory.

That’s where we come in.

Some time ago, Barrister & Mann had the extraordinary fortune to obtain a sample of the original base. Armed with only this small sample and a basic knowledge of what had gone into the original, we set out to recreate the famous base by smell alone. After four months of research, formulation, reformulation, and constant refinement, we successfully rebuilt Mousse de Saxe into its original glory. It seemed only fitting that such an achievement should be used to create a soap inspired by one of Caron’s most famous fragrances: Pour un Homme de Caron. We have not copied the original; instead, we have taken the Mousse de Saxe and blended it with lavender, vanilla, cedar wood, and the elegant musk Exaltolide to create a dark, leathery, elegant soap unlike anything seen for nearly a half century.
Barrister & Mann proudly presents Lavanille.



Based on one of the oldest forms of perfume, Cologne Russe is a throwback to a scent created by the House of Guerlain for the Russian Royal Family and discontinued in the early twentieth century. Notes of lemon, bergamot, petitgrain, and herbs dry down to violet, rose, bay, vanilla, and amber. The scent is distinctly warmer than most other cologne-type fragrances, owing largely to its inclusion of castoreum, benzoin, and vanilla. Clean and elegant without the aloofness of some other scents, Cologne Russe is a perfect way to finish your shave and brighten your morning after a cold, bitter winter.

nervosa1901@ likes this post


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