Should all razors be date coded?

I was watching a Michael Freedberg Youtube video where he was reviewing Le Pere Lucien soap and the Rockwell 6S razor.  I really like Michael's videos, they're well done and I appreciate his demeanour and dry wit "there's enough lather to shave the village!"    In any case, he commented that he would appreciate if the Rockwell were date stamped or coded so people could track that and know it because there are people who like that.  This resonated with me because I have 3 Rockwell 6S razors, 4 if you count the one I bought for my son.  I have the first one I bought a few years ago on the recommendation of Aurelian28 , I have a second one I haven't touched because I've been thinking of getting it ceracoated in some interesting colour combination, maybe Star Wars themed, and I have the Limited Edition black razor.  I'm not really c\razu about the black coating that Rockwell used because its not only a flat/matte black but the texture is nit all that smooth.  I don't mean that its like sandpaper - you'd have to touch it to know what I mean.  Flat paint is never as smooth to the touch as gloss.  The black coating used by Italian Barber in his various black Razo-Rock offerings is better.  The original Black Mamba and the Baby Smooth for example.  What I did notice, however, was that the black Rockwell seemed to shave a bit smoother at the same blade and setting than the standard razor.  Weird I thought?  What would account for that?  Could the coating have changed the geometry ever so little that it became a smoother shaver?  Could the molds that are used in the MIM process gradually wear over time to do the same thing, ie, change the geometry??  This is when it occurred to me that its possible that these mass produced razors aren't really a "commodity". that there can be variations between runs and that the only way you could keep track of that is either try every single razor Rockwell ever made, which is impractical or if the razors were stamped with a date or date code relating to the year and quarter of manufacture like the old Gillettes were.  Certain codes would become recognized for certain characteristics and become sought after while others may be avoided.  

So come on all you artisan razor makers, date stamp your work.  Heck, brush makers too.  You'll give the collector world one more data point to assist in their collecting.

Mark

I would love to see more razors date-stamped. I was disappointed to see ATT stopped dating their razors.

Date marking is a pain in the ass, especially if you go down to a quarter. If I make a full year’s worth of razors today and mark them 2020 Q1, I could still be selling some of them in Q1 2021. A new buyer probably doesn’t like buying a year old razor when there would now be new ones marked Q1 2021. Another reason I don’t date stamp is that forums can be super silly and we all know that even if every razor was exactly identical someone on the forums would declare a difference and then that year would be the “best” one. Then new customers would be constantly asking if I had any of the 2019s left over because they heard it was the best version. The reality is that no two razors are ever exactly alike. That’s why tolerances exist. A 5mm hole is never 5mm. Depending on how we tolerance things it could wind up 5.1mm or 5.00000001 and if our tolerance is +0.1, both parts would be accepted, but obviously not identical.

For a molded product like Rockwell, they would have to put the date into the molds which means every time they want to change dates they get to make a new mold. Not only does that cost tens of thousands of dollars, it also introduces more variability because every new mold presents an opportunity for things to change even slightly. Just as no two razors are exactly alike, neither are two molds for the same reasons. They could also stamp or engrave it after, but that would add labor and cost for basically no gain.

Perhaps for a limited run of razors it may work out if the manufacturer decides to do it. For large production the process is tedious and cumbersome. In my personal opinion I don't care for numbering on the razors as I am not a collector.


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 What I did notice, however, was that the black Rockwell seemed to shave a bit smoother at the same blade and setting than the standard razor.  Weird I thought?  What would account for that?  Could the coating have changed the geometry ever so little that it became a smoother shaver?  Could the molds that are used in the MIM process gradually wear over time to do the same thing, ie, change the geometry??  

Mark

Coating may fiddle with the blade gaps a little but the change would be miniscule. It won't be big enough to change the geometry of the razor. It however provides a glide just because of the sheer fact that coating decreases the friction comparatively.


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Date marking is a pain in the ass, especially if you go down to a quarter. If I make a full year’s worth of razors today and mark them 2020 Q1, I could still be selling some of them in Q1 2021. A new buyer probably doesn’t like buying a year old razor when there would now be new ones marked Q1 2021. Another reason I don’t date stamp is that forums can be super silly and we all know that even if every razor was exactly identical someone on the forums would declare a difference and then that year would be the “best” one. Then new customers would be constantly asking if I had any of the 2019s left over because they heard it was the best version. The reality is that no two razors are ever exactly alike. That’s why tolerances exist. A 5mm hole is never 5mm. Depending on how we tolerance things it could wind up 5.1mm or 5.00000001 and if our tolerance is +0.1, both parts would be accepted, but obviously not identical.

For a molded product like Rockwell, they would have to put the date into the molds which means every time they want to change dates they get to make a new mold. Not only does that cost tens of thousands of dollars, it also introduces more variability because every new mold presents an opportunity for things to change even slightly. Just as no two razors are exactly alike, neither are two molds for the same reasons. They could also stamp or engrave it after, but that would add labor and cost for basically no gain.

I hear you and I appreciate your candour.  Its inconvenient and an additional step and cost.  I guess my response would be, so what?  Charge more, do it on limited editions, whatever, the challenges of razor makers aren't really my concern.  I'm a customer not a razor maker.  Gillette was able to do it because of their scale of production and also they just stamped it on prior to plating and changing the stamps once a quarter wasn't a big deal.  As far as how big a pain in the ass it would be on a CNC milled razor is debatable.  Isn't it just an additional line of code and maybe one more process if you're not already engraving your brand on the base plate?  I'm sure a the computer can handle sequential serial numbering or quarterly changing of date engravings with the right instructions.  They can probably even give you date and time as well if you wanted it.  I have no idea how many razor makers have their own machine shops.  Very few I suspect.  The only one I know for sure who does is James Dufour and that's because he was a machinist before he made razors as Wolfman.  It would be a little more hassle getting all of this lined up with your contract machine shop but still not rocket science.  

The solution for a molded razor might be stencilling on the date code with a contrasting durable coating although the problem with something like the Rockwell is where do you put it given all the parts.  

I think it would be a problem if you were to make a couple of years' worth of razors in a single run and then date stamp them as you sold them.  If you're doing it with an eye to the collector market, I don't think collectors care about the date of sale - its the date of manufacture that's important.  If it was known that a manufacturer was date stamping razors made at some random date in the past with date of sale stamps it likely would backfire.  

My point in raising this issue wasn't to create more challenges for razor makers but rather to comment on what I saw as an opportunity.  If a significant number of customers want something and are willing to pay for it then why not give it to them?  Furthermore, while I will concede that forum activity isn't always at the highest levels, to discount as silly the experience of members over hundreds or in some cases thousands of shaves with a razor and concluding that there are differences among different versions of the same razor is in itself, silly.  If I was a manufacturer of razors I would consider the feedback from thousands of customers to be invaluable market intelligence.  Seriously, you couldn't afford to independently gather the data that you can get for free on forums.  I'd consider that interesting rather than silly.

Date marking is a pain in the ass, especially if you go down to a quarter. If I make a full year’s worth of razors today and mark them 2020 Q1, I could still be selling some of them in Q1 2021. A new buyer probably doesn’t like buying a year old razor when there would now be new ones marked Q1 2021. Another reason I don’t date stamp is that forums can be super silly and we all know that even if every razor was exactly identical someone on the forums would declare a difference and then that year would be the “best” one. Then new customers would be constantly asking if I had any of the 2019s left over because they heard it was the best version. The reality is that no two razors are ever exactly alike. That’s why tolerances exist. A 5mm hole is never 5mm. Depending on how we tolerance things it could wind up 5.1mm or 5.00000001 and if our tolerance is +0.1, both parts would be accepted, but obviously not identical.

For a molded product like Rockwell, they would have to put the date into the molds which means every time they want to change dates they get to make a new mold. Not only does that cost tens of thousands of dollars, it also introduces more variability because every new mold presents an opportunity for things to change even slightly. Just as no two razors are exactly alike, neither are two molds for the same reasons. They could also stamp or engrave it after, but that would add labor and cost for basically no gain.

I hear you and I appreciate your candour.  Its inconvenient and an additional step and cost.  I guess my response would be, so what?  Charge more, do it on limited editions, whatever, the challenges of razor makers aren't really my concern.  I'm a customer not a razor maker.  Gillette was able to do it because of their scale of production and also they just stamped it on prior to plating and changing the stamps once a quarter wasn't a big deal.  As far as how big a pain in the ass it would be on a CNC milled razor is debatable.  Isn't it just an additional line of code and maybe one more process if you're not already engraving your brand on the base plate?  I'm sure a the computer can handle sequential serial numbering or quarterly changing of date engravings with the right instructions.  They can probably even give you date and time as well if you wanted it.  I have no idea how many razor makers have their own machine shops.  Very few I suspect.  The only one I know for sure who does is James Dufour and that's because he was a machinist before he made razors as Wolfman.  It would be a little more hassle getting all of this lined up with your contract machine shop but still not rocket science.  

The solution for a molded razor might be stencilling on the date code with a contrasting durable coating although the problem with something like the Rockwell is where do you put it given all the parts.  

I think it would be a problem if you were to make a couple of years' worth of razors in a single run and then date stamp them as you sold them.  If you're doing it with an eye to the collector market, I don't think collectors care about the date of sale - its the date of manufacture that's important.  If it was known that a manufacturer was date stamping razors made at some random date in the past with date of sale stamps it likely would backfire.  

My point in raising this issue wasn't to create more challenges for razor makers but rather to comment on what I saw as an opportunity.  If a significant number of customers want something and are willing to pay for it then why not give it to them?  Furthermore, while I will concede that forum activity isn't always at the highest levels, to discount as silly the experience of members over hundreds or in some cases thousands of shaves with a razor and concluding that there are differences among different versions of the same razor is in itself, silly.  If I was a manufacturer of razors I would consider the feedback from thousands of customers to be invaluable market intelligence.  Seriously, you couldn't afford to independently gather the data that you can get for free on forums.  I'd consider that interesting rather than silly.

Yes of course it's doable and not terribly difficult. I didn't say it's a bad idea or that it shouldn't happen. I just said it's a PITA, and it is. Since your post, I have spent several hours thinking about it and researching methods of dating razors because I like the concept and I'd like to incorporate it if I can do so cleverly. My post wasn't in conflict with your idea; it was simply answering the question of why most modern razor makers don't date their products.

Regarding forums being silly, I think you've misconstrued my message so I'd like to straighten this out. I have a proven track record of placing extremely high value on customer/community feedback and, ultimately, that's why I spend my time reading forums. I don't do this for fun; I'm here for research and to provide information back to the community which provides so much for me. Of all razor makers out there, I'm one of if not the most receptive to criticism and feedback so the idea that I don't "consider the feedback from thousands of customers to be invaluable market intelligence" is completely off the mark and just factually incorrect. I constantly go out of my way to hunt for feedback because it's the most powerful tool in growing my business.

I think you simply misread my comment so let's clear things up. I said even if the razors were perfectly identical somebody could perceive a difference and that perception would be accepted by the community and, over time, it would be considered fact that a specific year was better. Remember, in this thought experiment the razors are the same so any perceived difference is unsupported by fact. Think about how Feathers are widely considered to be the sharpest blade even though testing has disproved that. This is the silliness of forums that I was referencing. Nowhere did I say that legitimate opinions or feedback on forums is silly. I don't think that and my history proves as much.

Sorry Shane, I wasn't trying to be offensive but your thought experiment was basically what I had just suggested about the black 6s shaving smoother than the standard one.  I even slept on my response before typing it   weakness of the medium.  I'm not angry or annoyed I just didn't think that my thoughts on the black 6s were silly.  Its funny because I thought about it for a while and tested/compared them for a few months before articulating my thoughts.  I was curious if anyone else had experienced the same thing.  Of course that would require that they have both a black and a standard 6s and who knows what other variables are out there.  

I only mentioned the date issue because I thought it was a good idea - as I said, I'm a customer and I leave the details up to the manufacturers.  Thats one of the differences between the present state of things and the past, aka, the good old days.  No customers (or at least very few) ever contacted King Gillette to blast him because they couldn't get a Fatboy or to ask him if he had any Slims from Q2, 1963 left in stock because they were the better Slim.  Theres no doubt that customer feedback can be a good thing but its a double edged sword as today's artisans all know.  

In any case I am aware that you are one of the most active artisans on this forum and I think its clear that you value customer feedback and opinions and I suppose that you were caught up in my own thought experiment in the same way I was in yours.  I apologize.

Marko 

Marko 

Thanks man,  

I think its a challenge to sort the wheat from the chaff on forums and it can be a massive time sink but I think it can be worth it - if you ever want to do any focused surveys on razors or shaving styles you're welcome to do them on DFS.  Andrew or one of the mods could help if needed to set up polls etc.  People seem to enjoy doing those sorts of things and it can get data points more efficiently too.