Scarcity, perceived value, etc.

I don’t see the point in bitching about other’s ability to seek fair market value, but this thread is different in that it is questioning the seller’s stated logic of the pricing. That is just discussion.

Thank you for understanding what I’m asking. I’ve been perplexed about the value of the BBS-1 for a while, especially when compared to Ti Wolfmans. The timing of these recent BST posts sort of highlighted the price discrepancy for me.

I mess around in the classic car realm and it used to surprise me how much the market fluctuates. A car that would collect $100k this year might bring half that next. The market in cars is seldom based on reality and numbers but is based on perception AND the right cash laden buyer. A buyer will purchase THE car for $100k which sets the market for perceived value of subsequent cars often to find there was really only one buyer at that price and the price goes back to $50k until the next gent comes along. Odd? Not really. Not my bag but I'm always glad for the guy who got the $100K and I assume the cat that paid it is happy with the transaction also. I am a numbers guy for the most part so I'll never be your source for the $100k but bully for the gent that gets it and congrats to the fella who wins it.

I'm definitely not an expert on scarcity or a collector nowadays but I'll play. BBS-1 would be any serious collector's choice over a Ti WR2. But why? Let's go.

-First and foremost, it's a discontinued hi-end numbered razor.
Do you really need more to hear?
-It was created during a period that $220 for a razor was a crazy amount of money. Now it's just a normal price. Back in the day, trust me, it was not.
-Besides just designing a razor, James also created the hi-end market of razors. iKon, ATT were on the market, but let's be honest. They are nowhere near the quality of a Wolfman.
-When he made this, I'm referring to James, he was practically an unknown machinist in this hobby. Nobody knew him. This razor changed his life and career, along with John@LASSC of course. There is no Wolfman logo on the baseplate mainly because it didn't exist as a company when he made this. He started making his own razors (WR1) way after designing the razor. It was just a project for the LASSC and you could buy it only through the latter.
-WR2 is a design based on the BBS-1. The original will always be more worthy. Always.
-You had to wait almost two years.
-BBS-1 is the first of its line of the hi-end razors as we use to call this market today.
etc.

This topic has been discussed so so many times... Yet people can't understand basic things and keep bitching. Most if not all people in this hobby, at least those who like modern hi-end razors, would love to own a piece of modern history.

We’ll see if a buyer’s perception aligns with the seller’s. How much did that item retail when it was new? How much are current comparable models?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm definitely not an expert on scarcity or a collector nowadays but I'll play. BBS-1 would be any serious collector's choice over a Ti WR2. But why? Let's go.

-First and foremost, it's a discontinued hi-end numbered razor.
Do you really need more to hear?
-It was created during a period that $220 for a razor was a crazy amount of money. Now it's just a normal price. Back in the day, trust me, it was not.
-Besides just designing a razor, James also created the hi-end market of razors. iKon, ATT were on the market, but let's be honest. They are nowhere near the quality of a Wolfman.
-When he made this, I'm referring to James, he was practically an unknown machinist in this hobby. Nobody knew him. This razor changed his life and career, along with John@LASSC of course. There is no Wolfman logo on the baseplate mainly because it didn't exist as a company when he made this. He started making his own razors (WR1) way after designing the razor. It was just a project for the LASSC and you could buy it only through the latter.
-WR2 is a design based on the BBS-1. The original will always be more worthy. Always.
-You had to wait almost two years.
-BBS-1 is the first of its line of the hi-end razors as we use to call this market today.
etc.

This topic has been discussed so so many times... Yet people can't understand basic things and keep bitching. Most if not all people in this hobby, at least those who like modern hi-end razors, would love to own a piece of modern history.

Ok, I think I understand where you’re coming from. As a user, not a collector, I see things through a user’s lens. I’d much rather use a Ti razor made by James than a SS razor made by him. Despite your condescending tone, your post is somewhat helpful.

pork I think you answered your own question. You’re looking at it through a “users lens”, not as a collector. No more BBS-1 will ever be produced again, and as Nikos pointed out above, for a serious collector having one of Dufour’s first numbered Razors is likely much more valuable than Ti. Dufour has said he plans on making more Ti Razors, and eventually there will probably be more Ti than BBS-1. For a collector it would probably be more valuable because of the limited number and the history associated with it. As far as price is concerned you and I both know it’s whatever someone is willing to pay.

I get all of that. I don’t know this for sure, but I’m willing to bet that there winds up being fewer Ti WR2s than SS BBS-1s. Add to that the various gap and comb combinations, and future buyers will have fewer choices for the exact razor he or she wants. Even if James did a solid year of nothing but Ti WR2s, I don’t think the total would reach 421. Sure, they’re not numbered, don’t have a distinctive handle and aren’t a “collectors item” per se, but I’m going to revisit this thread a few years from now. Maybe I’ll eat crow, maybe not.

I'm definitely not an expert on scarcity or a collector nowadays but I'll play. BBS-1 would be any serious collector's choice over a Ti WR2. But why? Let's go.

-First and foremost, it's a discontinued hi-end numbered razor.
Do you really need more to hear?
-It was created during a period that $220 for a razor was a crazy amount of money. Now it's just a normal price. Back in the day, trust me, it was not.
-Besides just designing a razor, James also created the hi-end market of razors. iKon, ATT were on the market, but let's be honest. They are nowhere near the quality of a Wolfman.
-When he made this, I'm referring to James, he was practically an unknown machinist in this hobby. Nobody knew him. This razor changed his life and career, along with John@LASSC of course. There is no Wolfman logo on the baseplate mainly because it didn't exist as a company when he made this. He started making his own razors (WR1) way after designing the razor. It was just a project for the LASSC and you could buy it only through the latter.
-WR2 is a design based on the BBS-1. The original will always be more worthy. Always.
-You had to wait almost two years.
-BBS-1 is the first of its line of the hi-end razors as we use to call this market today.
etc.

This topic has been discussed so so many times... Yet people can't understand basic things and keep bitching. Most if not all people in this hobby, at least those who like modern hi-end razors, would love to own a piece of modern history.

Ok, I think I understand where you’re coming from. As a user, not a collector, I see things through a user’s lens. I’d much rather use a Ti razor made by James than a SS razor made by him. Despite your condescending tone, your post is somewhat helpful.

I apologize if I sounded like that in my previous post. If you're wondering why nobody talks about this razor anymore, it's because these are old news. Numerous of threads and numerous of conflicts about this exact topic. Every time I read a thread about this feels like starring in the "Groundhog Day". The same questions over and over again. A member above still asks how much these were going for... Like it makes any difference or it hasn't already been written a thousand times. Nobody is supposed to know it, it's not that important anyway, but if someone reads my previous post will see the price these were going for. $220 for the first 200 I think and then $299.

I believe I summarized why the BBS-1 is what it is. For me, the 2k price point is actually reasonable, since I know I would not let the one I currently have go for that price. It cost me an arm and a leg. And I'm not a collector anymore. I sold pretty much everything I had to fellow members and on Ebay. I just have a few pieces I like and enjoy my shaves with them. That's all. These are not going anywhere.

Also, a collector does not care if this shaves better that what he already has. He has to have that one also in his collection. There is no logic in collecting stuff. A "logical" person would have a razor, a brush, a couple of soaps and a few blades and he would be very happy with them. A collector always searches for his next purchase.

There was a limited run of about 10 Ti BBS-1 some years ago. How about this true unicorn? How would you price that? It's almost priceless for a collector. I read reviews of members who have both and they actually prefer the stainless steel version, it shaves better according to them.

It's not just the material. Sure, the Ti is more exotic, but the BBS-1 has a history behind its name and that is more valuable than any material.

Finally, someone would say that comparing a Ti WR2 with a x,y,z gap to a ss BBS-1 is not a good idea for all the reasons I analyzed in my two posts. Let me tell you that the BBS-1 is a very effective razor and provides excellent shaves. It's a tad on the aggressive side, there is some blade feel but it does not bite you. The person with the highest gap in his WR2 feels very macho nowadays and easily thinks that it has to be a closer shaver than any other with a smaller gap. I read a similar comment I think in this very thread. If I were in his shoes, I would launch a NEW higher gap in the WR2 every week. There is a market for them by people who have to own the most "eFfEcTiVe" razor. Enough with the comments of people who haven't tried a product and like to make assumptions about it. They are the same people who make the reviews seem useless.

I am curious what the most valuable collector's razors are these days.

I remember a separate discussion a few months back about how the value of certain razors ... I remember now, it was Gillette Fatboys have really fallen off a cliff as the hobby has taken off and better razors have come to the market. Related to this, I'm curious what the BBS-1 and its ilk will maintain their value.

I'm one of the few, the proud   who have a BBS-1, and I paid less than half the asking price of the recently listed one a few years back. 

Sung to the tune of 'Almost Cut My Hair' (Crosby, Stills, Nash) I almost sold my BBS-1. Happened about a year ago. But I was restored to sanity.

It isn't 'better' than my WR2 1.25, but it is damned good, and has that je ne sais quoi that Nikos referred to. 

It is like having a 9/8 W&B 'For Barbers Only' in pristine condition. 

A line from the 1954 movie High Noon ... 'If you have to ask, I cannot explain it to you.'

That aside, the going rate for anything, AFAIC can be found in Completed Items in ebay. Right after John Brown announced that there would be no more BBS-1s made a few went for $1500 or so. Then they started sitting there with no buyer, but many watchers.

Years ago I heard a radio show referring to the stock market and prices. It said 'A Bigger Fool' will always come along, so you can buy at what seems an exorbitant price and be sure that one day you'll get your money back or more. In the collector's markets this seems to be the case, though not always. 

We're a crazy bunch.