#11

AdP Colonia Enthusiast
Sitting in orbit
(07-01-2022, 07:22 PM)frenchy Wrote:
(07-01-2022, 11:57 AM)xterribad Wrote: It's not a real quality of your lather and has no bearing on your shave. That is all.[Image: d4abc5c507049f204732f72293b5de2f.gif]

Based on your extensive experience and expertise in skin science and soap making I imagine…
That is all.
"You can't have an opinion unless you're an expert in the field!"

Very conducive to discussion. Great work.
#12

Just Here for the Shaves
Williamsburg, KY
(07-01-2022, 08:55 PM)xterribad Wrote:
(07-01-2022, 07:22 PM)frenchy Wrote:
(07-01-2022, 11:57 AM)xterribad Wrote: It's not a real quality of your lather and has no bearing on your shave. That is all.[Image: d4abc5c507049f204732f72293b5de2f.gif]

Based on your extensive experience and expertise in skin science and soap making I imagine…
That is all.
"You can't have an opinion unless you're an expert in the field!"

Very conducive to discussion. Great work.
But you said and I quote, "That is all" Not conducive to discussion there either Tongue

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This post by Dave in KY mentions views and opinions expressed and makes it known that they are "those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of DFS or any other member, agency, organization, employer or company."  Big Grin
#13
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2022, 11:12 PM by Dragonsbeard.)
(07-01-2022, 07:04 PM)DanLaw Wrote:
(07-01-2022, 02:45 PM)Itsallgravy Wrote:
(07-01-2022, 11:57 AM)xterribad Wrote: It's not a real quality of your lather and has no bearing on your shave. That is all.

This Seems like a very odd thing to say. 

1 I think cushion is not a defined term in wet shaving, I think for most people cushion is a way to describe a mix of the lubrication and thickness of the lather to create a smooth comfortable shave that allows a razor to glide across your face.  In that regards I would say cushion is a sum of many characteristics of a shaving product.

If what you meant to say is that a lathered cream or soap is not necessarily needed for a good shave that is something that deserves discussion.  There are many options for shaving that do not involve creating a lather at all.  However these options still provide cushion(lubrication, and protection).  If your argument is that you don't need a soap or product at all besides water, you wouldn't be totally incorrect but you're going to be hard pressed to find people that agree with it being as comfortable and enjoyable an experience as a good lather.

Try the clap test: spread various lathered soaps on your palms then clap them together - be prepared to do some cleaning afterwards.  

There is a demonstrable delta between various soaps: some soaps' lather so cushioned that the clap results in palms never touching while other soap lathers result in the palms fully contacting as though no soap present.  So how do we know cushion exists and what it accomplishes?  Through experimentation as any science major will have learned at some point in his education.  Cushion is distinct from glide.

For those with extremely damaged and sensitive skin, cushion is a major and desirable characteristic, perhaps not as much for those with normal skin

A similar technique but a bit different.
I use this technique to test my Shave soaps in regards to cushion and I have for a while now and it works for me. Basically you lather up both your hands or lather in a bowl first till you build an optimum Lather and then paint both your hands with a shave brush till they are completely covered with Lather. I find bowl lathering gets me a lather texture that's more in line with what I'd normally shave with. I also do jar lathering and then paint my hands also and it works good to but to just hand lather, I never get as good a lather as I do from a bowl when I completely lather in my hand. Anyway that's my preference. Then you press you're hands together and slowly apply pressure. You can feel the resistance if a lather has good cushion as opposed to one not having little to any. When you've done it as many times as I have you can definitely feel the difference. I'd say, the many times I've used this method I’ve gotten very accurate readings.

Another option to try.

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#14

Member
New York
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2022, 09:39 PM by mrdoug.)
(07-01-2022, 07:45 PM)Nero Wrote: Palm lather some products and rub the lather between your thumb and index finger... Some will just feel thin and watery... Others will feel like there's a layer of Vaseline or oil. The latter will feel more protective when shaving, more often than not.
(07-01-2022, 07:04 PM)DanLaw Wrote:
(07-01-2022, 02:45 PM)Itsallgravy Wrote:
(07-01-2022, 11:57 AM)xterribad Wrote: It's not a real quality of your lather and has no bearing on your shave. That is all.

This Seems like a very odd thing to say. 

1 I think cushion is not a defined term in wet shaving, I think for most people cushion is a way to describe a mix of the lubrication and thickness of the lather to create a smooth comfortable shave that allows a razor to glide across your face.  In that regards I would say cushion is a sum of many characteristics of a shaving product.

If what you meant to say is that a lathered cream or soap is not necessarily needed for a good shave that is something that deserves discussion.  There are many options for shaving that do not involve creating a lather at all.  However these options still provide cushion(lubrication, and protection).  If your argument is that you don't need a soap or product at all besides water, you wouldn't be totally incorrect but you're going to be hard pressed to find people that agree with it being as comfortable and enjoyable an experience as a good lather.

Try the clap test: spread various lathered soaps on your palms then clap them together - be prepared to do some cleaning afterwards.  

There is a demonstrable delta between various soaps: some soaps' lather so cushioned that the clap results in palms never touching while other soap lathers result in the palms fully contacting as though no soap present.  So how do we know cushion exists and what it accomplishes?  Through experimentation as any science major will have learned at some point in his education.  Cushion is distinct from glide.

For those with extremely damaged and sensitive skin, cushion is a major and desirable characteristic, perhaps not as much for those with normal skin
Ingenious ideas guys! Makes total sense, but I wouldn't have ever thought to do either of these. Love it!

Edit: Frank too! (just saw that one)

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#15
Just spitballing here xterribad
But…just maybe…presenting some actual facts to back up your opinion…as others did here…just might help your cause..
That is all. Great work?
#16

AdP Colonia Enthusiast
Sitting in orbit
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2022, 09:20 AM by xterribad.)
(07-01-2022, 09:27 PM)Dave in KY Wrote:
(07-01-2022, 08:55 PM)xterribad Wrote:
(07-01-2022, 07:22 PM)frenchy Wrote: Based on your extensive experience and expertise in skin science and soap making I imagine…
That is all.
"You can't have an opinion unless you're an expert in the field!"

Very conducive to discussion. Great work.
But you said and I quote, "That is all" Not conducive to discussion there either 
I stated an opinion. It got all of you talking about it. I'd say the discussion was started successfully.

Quote:frenchy
Just spitballing here xterribad
But…just maybe…presenting some actual facts to back up your opinion…as others did here…just might help your cause..
    That is all. Great work?

What for? What cause? At this point, I've stated my opinion and had a bunch of people clarify what their idea of cushion is. I like the points people are presenting so far. Meanwhile, all you've tried to do is gatekeep a conversation.

Nero likes this post
#17

Member
Maryland
I agree you did start a good conversation, if you could though I would like some clarification on what you meant.

Do you mean that you really don't need anything, you can just wet your face with water and shave with a wet face? Or do you mean that some kind of product is needed but it doesn't matter if its light and runny or dense lataher?

I am of the camp that a nice dense yogurt like lather that can hold a good amount of water produces the best results, but like I said there are people who believe that only shaving with water or a light oil is all you need. If you are in that camp I would love to hear more information.

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#18

AdP Colonia Enthusiast
Sitting in orbit
(07-01-2022, 10:42 PM)Itsallgravy Wrote: I agree you did start a good conversation, if you could though I would like some clarification on what you meant.

Do you mean that you really don't need anything, you can just wet your face with water and shave with a wet face? Or do you mean that some kind of product is needed but it doesn't matter if its light and runny or dense lataher?

I am of the camp that a nice dense yogurt like lather that can hold a good amount of water produces the best results, but like I said there are people who believe that only shaving with water or a light oil is all you need. If you are in that camp I would love to hear more information.
I'm a yogurt/sour cream consistency kinda person as well. It's pretty much how all my lathers come out, regardless of product. If we're talking that dense layer, I'd concede that that could be considered "cushion".

My original post is aimed at those saying that the Santa Claus beards they just laid out on their faces are "cushion". May as well use bath suds at that point. I see it all the time in lather posts and video reviews.

It's probably one of the most unclear/inconsistently used criteria for any shave product.

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#19

Posting Freak
Peachtree City, GA
Actually am a yogurt consistency latherer but the cushion varies dramatically between soaps. Also understand that some, especially those with good skin and, particularly, those using straights, may prioritize glide over cushion. All that fine; only addressing my skin needs and resultant preferences.

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#20

Member
Maryland
(07-01-2022, 11:08 PM)xterribad Wrote: My original post is aimed at those saying that the Santa Claus beards they just laid out on their faces are "cushion". May as well use bath suds at that point. I see it all the time in lather posts and video reviews.

It's probably one of the most unclear/inconsistently used criteria for any shave product.

I agree, having an inch of lather falling off your face provides no benefit, the blade is sliding underneath it all its not like your plunging it straight down into the middle of the lather, I also agree that it seems to be a term many people just use to describe the soaps they get the best results with in their various experiences.

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