Blade rigidity and razors

Funny re the Dart, eh?

One can’t help but wonder if the lack of blade rigidity is amplified by riding the bar versus the cap. Cap riders tend to an angle more in line with blade width thus imparting rigidity even on a less than perfectly secured blade top cap assembly whereas bar riders are completely reliant on the top cap securing the blade as they work against the blade’s inherent rigidity

I believe blade rigidity is part of the whole equation of what helps a razor shave well for me, exposure, blade angle, torque on the blade and gap also play a role. When a designer combines these it can be magic. I have razors that may not seem to have a rigid distal clamping but everything else is lined up well and I am rewarded with a great shave

True! I just feel that if a razor lacks of blade rigidity, the other characteristics are not always enough to provide a wonderful shave. EJ type of head which is a best-seller worldwide and GIllette recently chose it to launch some DEs has a very good overall performance and thousands of people love it, but it lacks of blade rigidity. I can feel this. Of course, I'm sure there are exceptions, for example razors that perform greatly without holding the blade rigidly and you can't feel any difference. Some talented engineers are/were able to make this happen. I read a thread on another forum about this a few months ago and thought it couldn't be true, no way it's that important. But then, I looked closely at the differencies, had dozens of shaves with my razors, using one for many consecutive shaves before switching to another and then I realised that maybe these guys were right and I was wrong. Also, it may be a coincidence, but I've tried many razors and I recall my thoughts and conclusions about them. I used to get more consistent shaves with SE razors for some time. There are comments about blade rigidity being a main factor which leads to wonderful shaves with an SE razor.

Still there is a chance I could be wrong and I'm just trying to explain why some designs that work really good for me are superior to others.

Lately I found that blade rigidity plays an important role in the shaving result. I hadn't thought of that before I looked closely at the differencies of each head. I'd say I get more consistent and clean shaves with a head design that holds the blade stiffer leaving no place to chattering. Do you feel the same way?

Also, I realised that a blade lasts more shaves if you pair it with a head that holds the blade more rigidly. For example, if I use a Personna with my WR1, I usually get about 6 excellent consecutive shaves or more, but if I pair it with many other razors, an EJ for example, I get 3-4 shaves at best following the exact same procedure. I get more consistent shaves with a Wolfman than I get with many other razors, vintage and modern ones. I reach for the WR1 more often since I realised this. Speaking of Wolfman, I also feel that the WR1 head design is superior to the BBS-1 (for me). The slimmer head profile makes the razor more maneuverable and it holds the blade a little bit more rigidly if I understand it correctly.

There are also many vintage options that offer a great blade rigidity. Old Types and pre/post-war Techs are considered amazing razors by many people. I guess the way they hold the blade plays a role in this. My post-war Tech is a great option and one of the very few vintage razors that I still own.

Rockwell 6s, which is a gorgeous razor, has a head design that holds the blade in a similar way to the EJ/Muhle type of head. I really like this razor, but the shaves are not that consistent and the blades don't last many shaves comparing to using them in other razors. The same way I feel about my EJ, even though it was my first razor and I improved my technique with this years ago. I blame the lacking blade rigidity for this.

It also explains why SE razors get a praise and have die-hard fans.

you forgot some of the most rigid razors on the market - GEM style razors and slants.

GEM style heads are SE too.

Personally, I'm not fond of slants. I'm sure they work good for many people though. Otherwise, no one would talk about them.

Every so often a seemingly non rigid design will have me flummoxed thinking how can this possibly shave as well as it does, the Wardonia being the ultimate example of a razor that should not pass against the grain muster but somehow does.

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This has me puzzled as well. The Blackbird, RS-10, some Paradigm razors, the Yintal bronze I use for travel; all non-rigid but superb shavers.

The Blackbird didn't work for me where the Dart does. The Bird tugged badly going ATG on my crown head stubble where the Dart does just fine. Similarly, the Timeless 95 is not as rigid as the Bronze and while it performed better than the Bird on my head, I sold it and kept the cheaper but better for me sibling Bronze.

I consider myself fortunate to never having blade chatter issues.  Either I'm immune or have no idea how to use the tool.  In either case, I'm good.

These issues only arise on my head shave. I do fine with less rigid designs on my beard.

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I've read you post that about the Blackbird before.  I loaned one to a DFSer once because he and I generally liked the same kind of gear.  He complained of chatter on his face.  Kinda weird.  I chalk it up to variations of men and carry on.  I'm super glad I've not had, or more likely noticed, chatter.  I'd be lonely without my Birds.  The Bird is the one that changed my whole shave world.  Coming strictly from vintage Gillette Adjustables, I'd never really felt positive exposure.  In fact, I had no idea what it was...but I knew within the first 2" of stroke that I loved that feeling. I had bought a T95OC as my first modern.  The Blackbird was the second.  I chased that euphoric "holy cow this thing is incredible!" feeling ever since.  Coincidentally, the BB (and you Jim, thru your posts) also schooled me on blade gap....and the interaction of the two.  So thanks for the part you played in my journey, although we don't know each other at all.

Lately I found that blade rigidity plays an important role in the shaving result. I hadn't thought of that before I looked closely at the differencies of each head. I'd say I get more consistent and clean shaves with a head design that holds the blade stiffer leaving no place to chattering. Do you feel the same way?

Also, I realised that a blade lasts more shaves if you pair it with a head that holds the blade more rigidly. For example, if I use a Personna with my WR1, I usually get about 6 excellent consecutive shaves or more, but if I pair it with many other razors, an EJ for example, I get 3-4 shaves at best following the exact same procedure. I get more consistent shaves with a Wolfman than I get with many other razors, vintage and modern ones. I reach for the WR1 more often since I realised this. Speaking of Wolfman, I also feel that the WR1 head design is superior to the BBS-1 (for me). The slimmer head profile makes the razor more maneuverable and it holds the blade a little bit more rigidly if I understand it correctly.

There are also many vintage options that offer a great blade rigidity. Old Types and pre/post-war Techs are considered amazing razors by many people. I guess the way they hold the blade plays a role in this. My post-war Tech is a great option and one of the very few vintage razors that I still own.

Rockwell 6s, which is a gorgeous razor, has a head design that holds the blade in a similar way to the EJ/Muhle type of head. I really like this razor, but the shaves are not that consistent and the blades don't last many shaves comparing to using them in other razors. The same way I feel about my EJ, even though it was my first razor and I improved my technique with this years ago. I blame the lacking blade rigidity for this.

It also explains why SE razors get a praise and have die-hard fans.

you forgot some of the most rigid razors on the market - GEM style razors and slants.

GEM style heads are SE too.

Personally, I'm not fond of slants. I'm sure they work good for many people though. Otherwise, no one would talk about them.

whoops, missed the last sentence. lol

Funny re the Dart, eh?

One can’t help but wonder if the lack of blade rigidity is amplified by riding the bar versus the cap. Cap riders tend to an angle more in line with blade width thus imparting rigidity even on a less than perfectly secured blade top cap assembly whereas bar riders are completely reliant on the top cap securing the blade as they work against the blade’s inherent rigidity

I dunno DannyLaw...I'd be surprised if any cap of mine has ever touched skin unless it was on loan to someone else. Only a slight exaggeration.

Rightly responded. What meant to state is that starting from the cap and rotating to the optimum cutting angle seems to help people find the angle where the blade is most aligned along its width which imparts maximum rigidity and leads to least chattering from a blade flexing. Have watched videos of well regarded reviewers where the blade is damn near perpendicular to the skin. If there any weakness in top cap blade interface, such blades going to flex and chatter - in fact, not sure how any top cap design could eliminate chatter so employed

I believe blade rigidity is part of the whole equation of what helps a razor shave well for me, exposure, blade angle, torque on the blade and gap also play a role. When a designer combines these it can be magic. I have razors that may not seem to have a rigid distal clamping but everything else is lined up well and I am rewarded with a great shave

Mystic. Crystal. Revelation.


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Rightly responded. What meant to state is that starting from the cap and rotating to the optimum cutting angle seems to help people find the angle where the blade is most aligned along its width which imparts maximum rigidity and leads to least chattering from a blade flexing. Have watched videos of well regarded reviewers where the blade is damn near perpendicular to the skin. If there any weakness in top cap blade interface, such blades going to flex and chatter - in fact, not sure how any top cap design could eliminate chatter so employed

Believe me, I get what you are saying and it really makes logical sense. I've tried to work it out in my head why I can run razors on the guard and it not chatter...or tug for that matter. You'd think I'm scraping more than cutting. *shoulder shrug*

Funny re the Dart, eh?

One can’t help but wonder if the lack of blade rigidity is amplified by riding the bar versus the cap. Cap riders tend to an angle more in line with blade width thus imparting rigidity even on a less than perfectly secured blade top cap assembly whereas bar riders are completely reliant on the top cap securing the blade as they work against the blade’s inherent rigidity

Clamp distance of the Blackbird is huge. Shane believes the bend of the blade and center clamping make it rigid enough. I'm not convinced, or perhaps there is something else going on that makes the Dart more effective ATG for me.



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