Aylsworth Drakkant DE Razor, DFS pass around

GlazedBoker  Quick follow up question.  It seems the main drawback to the Drakkant for you was the price point, with the second being the milder to medium efficiency.  Apart from a more efficient heavy plate option and better than prototype level finishing, what potential improvements in your opinion would make it worth the price point of $170-$185 USD (assuming that a lower price point is not an option for this razor)?

You know, that’s really tough to quantify or qualify. In context you would have to look at it from a consumers perspective and more specifically from a consumer who has had some experience in shave tool hardware in using multiple products, this case being a razor. My reasoning comes from experiences with dozens of other shavers at both from economically priced to the upper echelon of luxury priced razors. One’s criteria on evaluating a said razor will vary from individual to individual concerning price, performance and overall value. Razorock is nearly an anomaly on how they can offer a precisely machined razor at nearly entry level prices. Though their designs are not extremely complex, they produce in bigger numbers and base their sales in a bigger volume of sales to a broader consumer audience. This sales model looks to be a successful way of going about it for them. They churn out a new razor it seems every quarter or a variation of an existing model and supplement with optional upgrades. They stretch out their costs of incorporating design, r&d, prototyping and testing over a bigger production run and take it to the bank on sheer volume. I’m not privy to your cost structure analysis nor should I, it’s none of my concern. Your business is your business and I respect that. If you look within for example, the very shop that is producing your razor YPM,  produce a very similar performing razor at a more affordable price point. Coincidentally both houses produce exceptionally quality products that are second to none when you look at the affordable segment in wet shave razors.

In essence, my point is there are options available at a more affordable cost that deliver exactly what the Drakkant brings to the table. I don’t think at all that you have a bad razor as it shaves extremely well. It just has some tough competition as an entry level razor when overall price & performance are considered. Again, I can’t stress enough that this is just my opinion. I like the Drakkant, I just like others better that are in this price category. Personally, I have always preferred razors that have positive blade exposure designed into them. Doesn’t have to be much as a .001” to .003” of an inch can make a nice difference in shave quality while still keeping ease of use and smoothness relevant.

GlazedBoker Thanks again for the robust response!  Being a consumer and hobbiest myself, I completely understand the consumer perspective of their being other analogous razors available at a lower price point.  

Let's say for now though
that the means by which those few outliers achieve their rock bottom prices are not available to most startup razor companies, and as such I will need to price my initial offerings closer to the average prices for boutique stainless steel razors. 
I suppose then the question becomes:  In what way are those other analogously priced stainless steel razors earning their price tag in your view?  

Let's take the Blackbird or Timeless for instance, which are priced at $200 and $210 for machined and matte finish (as compared to the Drakkants $170 and $185).  You've already mentioned that you like the aesthetics, feel, and build quality of the Drakkant (the prototype finish notwithstanding), so is it merely the entry level efficiency that has you lumping it in with those lower priced razors rather than its more similarly priced peers? 

Thanks again for all the back and forth!  This is super helpful to understanding where the Drakkant is and ought to be positioned (and what may need to change in order to help it get there   )

GlazedBoker Thanks again for the robust response!  Being a consumer and hobbiest myself, I completely understand the consumer perspective of their being other analogous razors available at a lower price point.  

Let's say for now though
that the means by which those few outliers achieve their rock bottom prices are not available to most startup razor companies, and as such I will need to price my initial offerings closer to the average prices for boutique stainless steel razors. 
I suppose then the question becomes:  In what way are those other analogously priced stainless steel razors earning their price tag in your view?  

Let's take the Blackbird or Timeless for instance, which are priced at $200 and $210 for machined and matte finish (as compared to the Drakkants $170 and $185).  You've already mentioned that you like the aesthetics, feel, and build quality of the Drakkant (the prototype finish notwithstanding), so is it merely the entry level efficiency that has you lumping it in with those lower priced razors rather than its more similarly priced peers? 

Thanks again for all the back and forth!  This is super helpful to understanding where the Drakkant is and ought to be positioned (and what may need to change in order to help it get there   )

For me my priority is performance from a razor. Blackland & Timeless offer positive blade exposure along with a design geometry that still makes them comfortable to use with the Timeless razors being a bit easier & smoother on the skin. In my eyes they offer the performance & value in a more aesthetically pleasing package. I also have to mention that I'm a part of the minority of wet shavers that seeks performance over ease & comfort of use. So, technically I'm the wrong guy to be asking what is a priority in classifying a price point for a razor. I know, it's a copout of an answer but, it's a tough question to ask a user that gears himself towards the performance end of the shave game.

Let me throw in another comparison for you. Take the Feather AS-D2 razor. That razor is known for being an ultra mild shaver that is highly regarded as one of the best mildest daily shavers in traditional wet shaving. I think the Drakkant is equal to the Feather but, offers better cutting ability over the Feather while still being almost equally as smooth. Retail wise they are both similarly priced. For the shaver that likes the aspects that the Feather provides, the Drakkant is definitely right up their alley.

If you're just catering to me and the performance oriented group, up the blade feel ever so slightly without changing the looks of the Drakkant and keep its inherently designed smoothness. Which you might do down the road. Then you'll have my utmost attention.

Good luck and much success in your endeavors....

My guess is not likely, as Yates is our manufacturing partner for the Drakkant, but not the designer of the razor itself.  So there is little chance the plate geometry of the 921 would match the top cap of the Drakkant.  It is also worth mentioning that Yates was not the manufacturer of the prototype currently being passed around.

It's interesting that you would choose to do a pass around of a razor that was made by someone other than the person you will have Mfg the production model. I'm sure this was mentioned earlier in the thread but I can't recall... Could turn out to be a completely different shave than what everyone experiences during the pass around!! Are you going to do another pass around of the actual production razor for people to try out?

GlazedBoker   Perfect!  That's exactly what I was looking for.  I'd say you are spot on in your analysis that the Drakkant as currently designed is a mild to medium shaver.  In my own den I would compared it to the performance of a 6s 4-5 plate or a CB B-C plate, however I find it more comfortable (aka less blade feel) than either of those razors.  

For a person with less dense or coarse hair, more sensitive skin, or who just generally prioritizes comfort and non-existent irritation over blade feel and efficiency, then that might be considered a plus.  And so for this iteration that is the kind of consumer that I am catering to.  I, like you, actually enjoy a little blade feel though, as well as the boost in efficiency that comes with it, so if I were looking to purchase the Drakkant as a consumer I would actually probably hold out for the 'H' plate myself. So while I am not catering the Drakkant as currently designed to users like yourself and myself, that's exactly what the 'H' plate offering in intended to be.  

Regarding the value tier and market segmentation, I want the razor to be contemporary with the likes of Timeless and Blackland rather than razor Razorock or WSC, and its for that reason that I pulled out the stops regarding materials, manufacturing partners, and even packaging (which I would say is quite similar to what you will find with a Blackland or Timeless razor).  And while it is true that YPM does make some razors at a lower price point, and only YPM and WSC know how that is made possible, Yates also manufactures their own razors at a similar price point to the Drakkant, and some others even higher (although that particular partnership is not publicly known).  All of this to say that Yates does have a quality spectrum with what they put out, and are not precisely synonymous with lower priced razors.  In fact I do own a $200 Yates 921 and would say that its build quality is among the best in my den. Which also happens to be the reason that I chose them for my manufacturing partner in the first place!

Thanks again for all of the invaluable feedback.  This is the reason we do passarounds, and there's honestly no worthy price tag a razor maker could ever put on it 

My guess is not likely, as Yates is our manufacturing partner for the Drakkant, but not the designer of the razor itself.  So there is little chance the plate geometry of the 921 would match the top cap of the Drakkant.  It is also worth mentioning that Yates was not the manufacturer of the prototype currently being passed around.

It's interesting that you would choose to do a pass around of a razor that was made by someone other than the person you will have Mfg the production model. I'm sure this was mentioned earlier in the thread but I can't recall... Could turn out to be a completely different shave than what everyone experiences during the pass around!! Are you going to do another pass around of the actual production razor for people to try out?

Great point and I totally agree, however Yates did not have bandwidth to take on outside prototyping at the time, and so I had to go with what was available (in fact it was Jake that recommended the on demand prototyping service that I ended up using).

That said, since both manufacturing houses will be using exceptionally precise CNC machining processes, along with the same computer files and geometry (any edits or tweaks that arise from passaround notwithstanding), then the resulting shaver will be more or less the same in the prototype and shipping product, with the only notable differences being in the finish and cosmetic features. 

I could probably summarize the differences in the shipping razor vs the prototype as follows:

* Finishing:  The prototype is a more coarse matte bead blast, while the shipping razor will be either machined or a smooth satin bead blast.  This should increase aesthetics and eliminate the slight drag that some have experienced with the prototype.

* Tumbling:  The prototype is not tumbled, which leaves in some of the harder machined corners and edges.  The tumbling process on the shipping razors will smooth out any of these harder edges and should result in even more glide, comfort, as well as a slight boost in blade gap, feel, efficiency, and shave angle.

* Cosmetic Features:  The prototype has no engraving, while the shipping razors will get both a CNC engraved logo on the bottom of the handle and laser engraved unique serial numbers on the base plate. 

That's pretty much it!  And yes, there will very likely be a follow up passaround with the shipping razor, as well as for the more aggressive plate offerings

My guess is not likely, as Yates is our manufacturing partner for the Drakkant, but not the designer of the razor itself.  So there is little chance the plate geometry of the 921 would match the top cap of the Drakkant.  It is also worth mentioning that Yates was not the manufacturer of the prototype currently being passed around.

It's interesting that you would choose to do a pass around of a razor that was made by someone other than the person you will have Mfg the production model. I'm sure this was mentioned earlier in the thread but I can't recall... Could turn out to be a completely different shave than what everyone experiences during the pass around!! Are you going to do another pass around of the actual production razor for people to try out?

Great point and I totally agree, however Yates did not have bandwidth to take on outside prototyping at the time, and so I had to go with what was available (in fact it was Jake that recommended the on demand prototyping service that I ended up using).

That said, since both manufacturing houses will be using exceptionally precise CNC machining processes, along with the same computer files and geometry (any edits or tweaks that arise from passaround notwithstanding), then the resulting shaver will be more or less the same in the prototype and shipping product, with the only notable differences being in the finish and cosmetic features. 

I could probably summarize the differences in the shipping razor vs the prototype as follows:

* Finishing:  The prototype is a more coarse matte bead blast, while the shipping razor will be either machined or a smooth satin bead blast.  This should increase aesthetics and eliminate the slight drag that some have experienced with the prototype.

* Tumbling:  The prototype is not tumbled, which leaves in some of the harder machined corners and edges.  The tumbling process on the shipping razors will smooth out any of these harder edges and should result in even more glide, comfort, as well as a slight boost in blade gap, feel, efficiency, and shave angle.

* Cosmetic Features:  The prototype has no engraving, while the shipping razors will get both a CNC engraved logo on the bottom of the handle and laser engraved unique serial numbers on the base plate. 

That's pretty much it!  And yes, there will very likely be a follow up passaround with the shipping razor, as well as for the more aggressive plate offerings

Now you're talking my language. 

I completely respect everything that GlazedBoker wrote regarding his experience and his thoughts on and with the Drakkant.  I posted my feedback on the Drakkant  further back but I was not as detailed and I realize that Kaleb is looking for detailed responses to inform his business going forward.  That said, I'm not sure if comparisons to Razorock are necessarily useful (no offence) Joe has been in business a while and has had more than a few clunkers in the razor category (IMO).  The fact that he can keep his price point as low as it is while saying that his razors are machined in Canada which is a high labour cost jurisdiction is impressive.  I know that "made in", "product of" etc all have specific meanings.  Apart from that I will not put something like the RR Lupo into the same category as the Drakkant.  The Lupo is more of a tool while the Drakkant is crossing into a piece of functional art - the handle for one, profiles etc.  I could use a Drakkant (with a smoother finish) as a daily driver.  Ive never been able to warm up to the Lupo** or most of the other RR razors I have in a drawer so while they may be cheaper, its not great value if you don't use them.  Furthermore, given YMMV and all that, its likely not possible to make a razor that everyone will like so the goal is to make a razor that most people will like at a price point that is reasonable in the circumstances.  


**I've tried to like it but it just isn't for me.  If I were to put razors on a scale with the ikon Tech at one end and the Feather AS-D2 on the other, the Lupos are closer to the Tech end of the scale for me.  I don't want that experience every morning.

I completely respect everything that GlazedBoker wrote regarding his experience and his thoughts on and with the Drakkant.  I posted my feedback on the Drakkant  further back but I was not as detailed and I realize that Kaleb is looking for detailed responses to inform his business going forward.  That said, I'm not sure if comparisons to Razorock are necessarily useful (no offence) Joe has been in business a while and has had more than a few clunkers in the razor category (IMO).  The fact that he can keep his price point as low as it is while saying that his razors are machined in Canada which is a high labour cost jurisdiction is impressive.  I know that "made in", "product of" etc all have specific meanings.  Apart from that I will not put something like the RR Lupo into the same category as the Drakkant.  The Lupo is more of a tool while the Drakkant is crossing into a piece of functional art - the handle for one, profiles etc.  I could use a Drakkant (with a smoother finish) as a daily driver.  Ive never been able to warm up to the Lupo** or most of the other RR razors I have in a drawer so while they may be cheaper, its not great value if you don't use them.  Furthermore, given YMMV and all that, its likely not possible to make a razor that everyone will like so the goal is to make a razor that most people will like at a price point that is reasonable in the circumstances.  


**I've tried to like it but it just isn't for me.  If I were to put razors on a scale with the ikon Tech at one end and the Feather AS-D2 on the other, the Lupos are closer to the Tech end of the scale for me.  I don't want that experience every morning.

Sounds like someone need to sell 3-4 RR Razors and buy a Drakkant So true that you can't make a razor EVERYONE will love. It arrived in Knoxville this morning so I should have it tomorrow evening instead of Monday as long as no one falls asleep at the PO and holds it.

I completely respect everything that GlazedBoker wrote regarding his experience and his thoughts on and with the Drakkant.  I posted my feedback on the Drakkant  further back but I was not as detailed and I realize that Kaleb is looking for detailed responses to inform his business going forward.  That said, I'm not sure if comparisons to Razorock are necessarily useful (no offence) Joe has been in business a while and has had more than a few clunkers in the razor category (IMO).  The fact that he can keep his price point as low as it is while saying that his razors are machined in Canada which is a high labour cost jurisdiction is impressive.  I know that "made in", "product of" etc all have specific meanings.  Apart from that I will not put something like the RR Lupo into the same category as the Drakkant.  The Lupo is more of a tool while the Drakkant is crossing into a piece of functional art - the handle for one, profiles etc.  I could use a Drakkant (with a smoother finish) as a daily driver.  Ive never been able to warm up to the Lupo** or most of the other RR razors I have in a drawer so while they may be cheaper, its not great value if you don't use them.  Furthermore, given YMMV and all that, its likely not possible to make a razor that everyone will like so the goal is to make a razor that most people will like at a price point that is reasonable in the circumstances.  


**I've tried to like it but it just isn't for me.  If I were to put razors on a scale with the ikon Tech at one end and the Feather AS-D2 on the other, the Lupos are closer to the Tech end of the scale for me.  I don't want that experience every morning.

Sounds like someone need to sell 3-4 RR Razors and buy a Drakkant  So true that you can't make a razor EVERYONE will love. It arrived in Knoxville this morning so I should have it tomorrow evening instead of Monday as long as no one falls asleep at the PO and holds it.

Dave, I was thinking the exact same thing