Merchant
San Diego CA
That Bald Guy with the Big Beard
Bishop, CA
What topic?
You asked for opinions. Everyone with the desire to provide an opinion has done so.
End of Topic.
There is no point in debate when half of the debate refuses to acknowledge any validity in the statements made by the other half of the debate. That is not a discussion, it's an argument baiting process that is not conducive to quality discussions.
And branding all contrary opinions as "convoluted" and "twisted" simply because you disagree with them tends to close a discussion very quickly, as you see. Right or wrong, it leaves little else to be said.
What more do you want?
You asked for opinions. Everyone with the desire to provide an opinion has done so.
End of Topic.
There is no point in debate when half of the debate refuses to acknowledge any validity in the statements made by the other half of the debate. That is not a discussion, it's an argument baiting process that is not conducive to quality discussions.
And branding all contrary opinions as "convoluted" and "twisted" simply because you disagree with them tends to close a discussion very quickly, as you see. Right or wrong, it leaves little else to be said.
What more do you want?
-Chris~Head Shaver~
Member
"
Here's an observation on a couple of active threads going on now that have some common themes if you will. This place is loaded with good men and I would surmise, some very intelligent men as well. One can gather from the thread on "what people do for a living", that there is also a bevy of successful men in this forum as well. This means there are probably a lot of the same personalities in the room so to speak. From my observation after being here a long time and spending too much time on here
and reading a plethora of threads is this:
1. You have a better chance of winning your state's lottery than you do of changing someone's mind on something here. You can banter and spout what you deem as logic all day long, the end result will be the same, both parties still see the world the same way. I have been guilty of this myself and posted a few times too many on topics to my own detriment as I got sucked into a debate that really wasn't worth having. It wasn't worth my time and it achieved nothing. Lesson learned. If you have to state something more than once, you are being redundant I need to remember this myself in the future here.
2. Sharing opinions is great, but debating them in hopes of changing one's mind drags down threads and defeats the purpose of said thread when this type of "debate" takes place. Again, I have been guilty of this and will attempt to cease doing this myself moving forward.
3. Two men looked at the sky. The first said "what a glorious day look at that beautiful blue sky". The second man standing next to him says, it's a terrible day, the sky is Grey and it's always Grey." The first man had perfect normal vision, to him and his perception, the sky was Blue. The second man being color blind his entire life had never seen a Blue sky and to him, the sky was always Grey..... does that make either wrong?
Just some food for thought. It seems lately, again, I'm guilty as well, we have started with a good thread topic and then they turn into tit for tat and digress into a debating session where no one budges and productivity stalls. I'm not judging here because I have been guilty of the aforementioned behavior as well, but what I can do is try and curb it moving forward and I think that has some value....
Here's an observation on a couple of active threads going on now that have some common themes if you will. This place is loaded with good men and I would surmise, some very intelligent men as well. One can gather from the thread on "what people do for a living", that there is also a bevy of successful men in this forum as well. This means there are probably a lot of the same personalities in the room so to speak. From my observation after being here a long time and spending too much time on here
and reading a plethora of threads is this:1. You have a better chance of winning your state's lottery than you do of changing someone's mind on something here. You can banter and spout what you deem as logic all day long, the end result will be the same, both parties still see the world the same way. I have been guilty of this myself and posted a few times too many on topics to my own detriment as I got sucked into a debate that really wasn't worth having. It wasn't worth my time and it achieved nothing. Lesson learned. If you have to state something more than once, you are being redundant I need to remember this myself in the future here.
2. Sharing opinions is great, but debating them in hopes of changing one's mind drags down threads and defeats the purpose of said thread when this type of "debate" takes place. Again, I have been guilty of this and will attempt to cease doing this myself moving forward.
3. Two men looked at the sky. The first said "what a glorious day look at that beautiful blue sky". The second man standing next to him says, it's a terrible day, the sky is Grey and it's always Grey." The first man had perfect normal vision, to him and his perception, the sky was Blue. The second man being color blind his entire life had never seen a Blue sky and to him, the sky was always Grey..... does that make either wrong?
Just some food for thought. It seems lately, again, I'm guilty as well, we have started with a good thread topic and then they turn into tit for tat and digress into a debating session where no one budges and productivity stalls. I'm not judging here because I have been guilty of the aforementioned behavior as well, but what I can do is try and curb it moving forward and I think that has some value....
That Bald Guy with the Big Beard
Bishop, CA
(04-04-2016, 07:33 PM)steeleshaves Wrote: "I am also guilty of this at times...clearly...
Here's an observation on a couple of active threads going on now that have some common themes if you will. This place is loaded with good men and I would surmise, some very intelligent men as well. One can gather from the thread on "what people do for a living", that there is also a bevy of successful men in this forum as well. This means there are probably a lot of the same personalities in the room so to speak. From my observation after being here a long time and spending too much time on here
1. You have a better chance of winning your state's lottery than you do of changing someone's mind on something here. You can banter and spout what you deem as logic all day long, the end result will be the same, both parties still see the world the same way. I have been guilty of this myself and posted a few times too many on topics to my own detriment as I got sucked into a debate that really wasn't worth having. It wasn't worth my time and it achieved nothing. Lesson learned. If you have to state something more than once, you are being redundant I need to remember this myself in the future here.
2. Sharing opinions is great, but debating them in hopes of changing one's mind drags down threads and defeats the purpose of said thread when this type of "debate" takes place. Again, I have been guilty of this and will attempt to cease doing this myself moving forward.
3. Two men looked at the sky. The first said "what a glorious day look at that beautiful blue sky". The second man standing next to him says, it's a terrible day, the sky is Grey and it's always Grey." The first man had perfect normal vision, to him and his perception, the sky was Blue. The second man being color blind his entire life had never seen a Blue sky and to him, the sky was always Grey..... does that make either wrong?
Just some food for thought. It seems lately, again, I'm guilty as well, we have started with a good thread topic and then they turn into tit for tat and digress into a debating session where no one budges and productivity stalls. I'm not judging here because I have been guilty of the aforementioned behavior as well, but what I can do is try and curb it moving forward and I think that has some value....
I am going to follow the advice offered in this post to the best of my abilities.
-Chris~Head Shaver~
Chazz Reinhold HOF
steeleshaves Nice post. All points were accurate in your assessment. I have also been guilty.....One thing I am clear, I am not changing nobody's mind, and I don't intend to. I respect opinions even if I don't share them, just don't call me names because I don't agree with you, when people do that, is on!
Member
You guys crack me up
Len The problem appears that you are coming up for solutions for problems that don't exist, just as in your other thread about getting the other 99% of men in the world to traditional wet shave. You don't want to hear "it aint going to happen". You want to talk about a solution that no one here can solve.
or in this case, a problem that doesn't exist.
Len The problem appears that you are coming up for solutions for problems that don't exist, just as in your other thread about getting the other 99% of men in the world to traditional wet shave. You don't want to hear "it aint going to happen". You want to talk about a solution that no one here can solve.
or in this case, a problem that doesn't exist.
Member
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2016, 08:50 PM by Len.)
(04-04-2016, 08:09 PM)grim Wrote: You guys crack me up
Len The problem appears that you are coming up for solutions for problems that don't exist, just as in your other thread about getting the other 99% of men in the world to traditional wet shave. You don't want to hear "it aint going to happen". You want to talk about a solution that no one here can solve.
Apprenticeships exist in the crafts, with artisans, machinists, etc. Hearing that this isn't so, or why it shouldn't exist, seems way out in left field to what appears in reality. (And yes, wet shaving is trending in the mainstream too, in Walmart's, Targets, and malls across the country.)
The OP isn't asking whether you think this should exist, or even if it can, it's asking how it can continue, and in what forms. It's asking established artisans and prospective students about their ideas concerning appropriate models within apprenticeship.
If I start a thread asking how to make cheese, and the responses are, "I don't like cheese", "Cheese is unhealthy", and "People shouldn't make cheese", I would be reminded of this thread. It's totally off base to the topic at hand. There might be some vague relation to the OP, but it is a different issue entirely.
Please consider this when responding, as I think it is a worthy topic. If you think artisan apprenticeships or wet shaving going mainstream shouldn't happen, please create threads for that and I'll be happy to debate you there.
That Bald Guy with the Big Beard
Bishop, CA
The original question asks only existing apprentices what their arrangements are, and existing artisans what they woudl accept.
So does that mean the only answers you are willing to entertain come from those 2 sources?
If so, you will be better asking specific artisans directly.
However, if you want people's opinions about a topic, you need to learn to accept that this is an open forum. The topic will never be strictly adhered, and opinions will never be 100% in alignment with your own.
If you dont want people to give you an opinion about modern artisans taking on apprentices, don't ask for them.
Every answer in here is a direct answer to the question you posed, albeit, most of us are not existing apprentices or artisans. That does not mean those opinions are off-topic or invalid...they are still well-reasoned and respectfully worded opinions directly related to the original question.
If you don;t like open communication, but would rather have a specific Q & A about a specific questions you have, perhaps you should direct your attentioon to those you specifically want to ask these questions to, instead of making a general post, seeking general opinions, from us lowly consumers...
So does that mean the only answers you are willing to entertain come from those 2 sources?
If so, you will be better asking specific artisans directly.
However, if you want people's opinions about a topic, you need to learn to accept that this is an open forum. The topic will never be strictly adhered, and opinions will never be 100% in alignment with your own.
If you dont want people to give you an opinion about modern artisans taking on apprentices, don't ask for them.
Every answer in here is a direct answer to the question you posed, albeit, most of us are not existing apprentices or artisans. That does not mean those opinions are off-topic or invalid...they are still well-reasoned and respectfully worded opinions directly related to the original question.
If you don;t like open communication, but would rather have a specific Q & A about a specific questions you have, perhaps you should direct your attentioon to those you specifically want to ask these questions to, instead of making a general post, seeking general opinions, from us lowly consumers...
-Chris~Head Shaver~
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